Thoughts on the Akbash and Kengal dogs

If you are wondering what is the right dog for you, this is the place to be. In this introductory forum we talk about topics such as breed vs. mix, size, age, grooming, breeders, shelters, rescues as well as requirements for exercise, space and care. No question is too silly here. This particular forum is for getting and giving helpful, nice advice. It is definitely not a forum for criticizing someone else's opinion, knowledge or advice. This forum is all about tail wagging and learning.

(Page 2 of 4: Viewing entries 11 to 20)  
1  2  3  4  
Tyson Savage- CGC

Let's do big dog- stuff!
Barked: Sun Jun 13, '10 7:16am PST 
I am actually looking to add one of those breeds to my family too! Not for a while though. The Kurdish Kengal is illegal to own outside of Turkey, but from what I have learned the Anatolian Shepherd is the same dog. I really want an Akbash though...*drool*

Muffin Lips.
Barked: Sun Jun 13, '10 9:01am PST 

I can only see having a Kangal if this would be his lifestyle (see photo laugh out loud. SUCH a hard working dog... They aren't bred as companion animals, and unless they have a serious bit of space to roam/guard I think they would likely become destructive and very aggressive. Not a dog to keep in a small home and walk to the dog park everyday, that's for sure. The very same goes for the Akbash. Not to say that people haven't owned these dogs in neighborhoods with great success...I just wouldn't do it myself, that's for sure. Not when there are other breeds who are far more fitting to a companion/family lifestyle. Now, if I ever end up on some acres and decide to keep some sheep.. I'll be looking into one then! big grin

All that lives- is holy.
Barked: Mon Jun 14, '10 2:29pm PST 
The Kurdish Kengal is illegal to own outside of Turkey.

It's not illegal where I live. It may be illegal for a US citizen to own one in the US according to Turkish laws, but I'm American. wink

I really don't like sheep, but I do want one to guard my goats when I get some, and my baby horses to make sure that one never gets eaten by coyotes again. cry

Shayne CGC,- RL2

Shayne- Disc Doggin in- the 'Burgh!
Barked: Mon Jun 14, '10 2:55pm PST 
Ironically i was just talking about kengal dogs recently

I dont know much about Akbash but Kengal dogs... frankly i don't think they should be available to the public--they are way too much dog for most people and they really NEED a flock to guard.. if you dont give them a flock they will generally decide the family is the flock and can have some SERIOUS bite histories because of this.

They do NOT make good house pets. They are EXCELLENT working dogs.. amazing animals absolutely fearless and are loyal beyond belief... but are, i'd argue, one of the most dangerous dogs if they are not in the right home. I've known more than one who somehow ended up in suburban homes... none of them were able to live in those homes... all three ended up with severe resource guarding (protection, duh) and had bite histories because of this--two, ended up paying the ultimate price for just being a natural guardian.... the other was fortunate enough to get adopted to a working home.

These are amazing animals who are just... brave and intense as they come. If i had a flock i REALLY needed to protect (if i was in bear/cougar country and had LOTS of them around) i'd probably go the route of a kengal dog...but if i didn't have a big job for them, i wouldn't have them because they need that protection job.
Makaveli PSDIT

I Can Has Lovin'- Nao?
Barked: Mon Jun 14, '10 3:50pm PST 
I actually have a friend in the U.K. who had an Akbash. Now, for your situation I WOULD say that you can do it, simply because you are not taking the dog out of it's element and it will be preforming what it was bred to do- guard livestock. The farm is the perfect and only place I'd recommend getting a dog like this. They are too much if you do not live in the country, and are pretty much too much for any dog owner. People forget that these dogs haven't been off the farm for that long, so they really know nothing other than what they have been bred to do, and have strong instincts to do so. Like another poster mention they almost always need a job to do. My friend sadly had to get rid of his dog, once he found out the same sad truth I am telling you. The dog (to his disbelief) didn't want ANYTHING to do with being inside the house. He loved being outside, in his element so to speak. My friend didn't give up just yet, he built the dog a fenced in run, and a shed to sleep in. Still it wasn't enough, poor old Artemis tried escaping time and time again, and once ended up at a farmer's house who coincidentally had goat and sheep herds. Since that day, Artemis would escape and go to the farmer's house. Once my friend found out where his dog was going, he went to the farmer's house to retrieve his dog and found his dog happily laying amongst a flock of sheep. This is what they were bred to do guys, and will return to doing so if given a chance. They want nothing more than a job to fulfill. In the end, the farmer was given the dog of his dreams, a dog who just wanted to be with and protect it's flock! So if anyone is thinking of an Akbash, I'd hope that they had a lot of land, and a job for their dog to do wave

I'm going with- you, right?
Barked: Mon Jun 14, '10 4:19pm PST 
Tyson, Kangal Dogs aren't illegal outside of Turkey per se (though some are included in some pieces of BSL); Turkey does, however, have very strict regulations as regards exporting Kangals out of their country -- from my understanding you actually have to have government permission to do so if you're not a Turkish national, otherwise it is illegal. Makes sense though, Kangals are Turkey's national dog and they absolutely want to protect and preserve this amazing breed.

Anatolian Shepherds are absolutely not the same breed as Kangal Dogs. Certain people claim that Turkey's livestock-guardian breeds are all the same breed, and that breed is the Anatolian Shepherd; if, however, one were to read up on the different Turkish breeds one would see this is not true -- not to mention, last I knew, a large number of Turks have never even heard of the Anatolian Shepherd.

My understanding of the history of Anatolian Shepherds is that they are the result of someone bringing two pups from Turkey and breeding from there, but those pups were not Kangals, or at least certainly not purebreds -- odds are they were simply street dogs brought over. Technically they're an ancient Turkish breed in the sense that we know street dogs have been a fact of civilization from the start, but beyond that...

Kangals only come in tan with a black mask or a sort of sable, but the black mask is integral to the breed (it's the source for one of their nicknames, Karabaş ). On the other hand, Anatolian Shepherds can come in any color or patterning, so long as they fit a basic "type."

As many have said, a Kangal Dog is really best suited for the purpose they were bred: guarding livestock. I've heard of very few who have successfully kept a Kangal outside of that role, and I hugely admire the fact they can. I, however, will be waiting to look into this breed until I have my ranch (probably in the Midwest) so I can have a flock for the dog to guard.

Again, I haven't researched the Akbash enough to give a great deal of information on them, but I do know (and Cain's stories really contest to this) that the Turkish-bred Akbash and the American-bred Akbash one is likely to see can be two completely different animals temperament-wise. I had a neighbor who apparently owned an Akbash and I still kind of wonder how true that is...easily nowhere in the same world as Maximum Max!!

For anyone who is curious, here is the site which, when I was researching them, was the source of most of my knowledge. If you scroll down there is a bulleted section titled "Kangal or Anatolian?" which gives several sources for information.

I'm a trilingual- dog!
Barked: Mon Jun 14, '10 4:24pm PST 
Lots of rare & 'national breed' dogs are hard(er) to export but of all the cases I know it's not 'illegal'... just difficult per the kennel club or listed breeders. Dunno how they would enforce it.. international law already is as tricky, complicated, and long winded, that I really, really doubt that it could be 'illegal'.

I'm going with- you, right?
Barked: Mon Jun 14, '10 5:01pm PST 
Admittedly haven't seen the law myself, just going off of what I've come across as regards exporting these dogs. From my understanding it's the actual government which is trying to regulate the exportation of the breed, and they actually have government controlled breeding centers established in some places (according to one source -- I can try and confirm if anyone would like).

I can't say how Turkey or Turkish government works or how they may enforce this law, but as far as questions as to how enforceable it is...well, government doesn't always write and pass legislation that is easily enforceable. shrug
Vance CGC

You kids g'off- my lawn!
Barked: Tue Jun 15, '10 11:15am PST 
I'll echo that these are phenomenal working dogs, who should absolutely never be kept purely as companions.

I haven't met a Kengal dog personally, although I have also heard of the difficulties they can present when taken away from livestock. I have known a couple of Akbash dogs. The breeder had a strict policy of only placing her dogs in working homes. The pair I knew were in a pet home, and believe me, she put those people through absolute hell before she decided to give them a puppy. Both were socialized until they could not be any longer, trained a little longer than that, and then pretty much locked down on the owner's property. They live on a huge piece of land, alone, with very few visitors. Everyone knew before the puppies even got home that is what it would take to keep them happy and stable, short of having a flock to protect.

All that lives- is holy.
Barked: Tue Jun 15, '10 12:36pm PST 
I want to mention just as a kind of disclaimer that although other than bolting, Rocky was a wonderful dog, his elderly owners weren't entirely beginners- he was a retired K9 officer who had handled K9s in the Marines before becoming a police officer. He was up there in years, but the dog had a solid upbringing, even if he hadn't been proofed the way I would've liked to see him.

I think his owners bit off more than they could chew, but they didn't choke on it, BOL.

I hope to live in a somewhat less predator-laden area in the future, but I had significant problems with coyotes where I used to live and have seen them around where I live now. Hopefully, I won't live here very long, but I'm unsure where I'll be living after this.

Mostly, I remember this little guy.

There was a sort-of flock guard at his pasture, half collie, half pyrnese, but he was older and not very big, and the coyotes almost ate him, too. I doubt they'd eat a pair of Kengals or Akbash.
  (Page 2 of 4: Viewing entries 11 to 20)  
1  2  3  4