What do you think of these breeders?

If you are wondering what is the right dog for you, this is the place to be. In this introductory forum we talk about topics such as breed vs. mix, size, age, grooming, breeders, shelters, rescues as well as requirements for exercise, space and care. No question is too silly here. This particular forum is for getting and giving helpful, nice advice. It is definitely not a forum for criticizing someone else's opinion, knowledge or advice. This forum is all about tail wagging and learning.

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Barked: Sat May 26, '12 10:10pm PST 
I could just nod along with Mulder since I disagree with nothing she said but I might as well add my own two cents.

Aside from this great display of thread necromancy (generally frowned upon. If you've got something to say, make a new thread), temperament testing means jack if the dog can't walk due to crippling hip dysplasis at 8 months old or is taken out of commission by a heart condition. They do show Goldens in Europe so putting every issue in the world on American show-breeders is frankly ridiculous. Europe is not Narnia. The health issues are certainly present there as well and they're not limited to show-bred dogs by any stretch. I'd actually postulate that more issues are produced by mediocre breedings of subpar nonhealth-tested dogs.

If you got one of your dogs from one of those breeders, great. I'm sure the dog is exactly what you want and I hope it stays that way. Since however, every puppy is in essence a crap-shoot it's generally a good idea to do the research and stack the deck in your favor. Health testing is one such plan since health guarantees can only go so far. Titles show the person put in the leg-work to actually you know, do something with the dogs other than toss them outside and sell the results. My own bias is towards working and performance titles due to the training I put in but a show title does show dedication to putting some work into the dog particularly in popular show-breeds.

As Mulder said, it's not rocket science but it is common sense which I swear must be sold by NASA nowadays.

Love me.
Barked: Sun May 27, '12 12:53am PST 
....zombies are all the rage now, haven't you heard? Especially in Florida.shock
Jackson Tan

Lad about town
Barked: Sun May 27, '12 1:31am PST 
'Europe is not Narnia' laugh out loud

Maci & Harley & Jigar

Golden butts
Barked: Mon May 28, '12 8:43am PST 
I agree you may want to consider what plans you have for the new golden. There are a few very good breeders in goldens that only breed for field/obedience so you would not necessarily see them at a dog show.

But saying that...you should see titles from any breeder. Not as a way for the breeder to brag but to show that they have a vested interest in their dogs, like to spend time with them, etc. First that gives me a bit more confidence in the dams/sirs temperment and second, more confidence in the knowledge of the breeder for any future training issues you may have.

And health clearances are a must. It is not a 100% guarantee but drastically lessens the chance. I have known of 6 golden puppies from the pet store with extreme HD.

Barked: Mon Sep 3, '12 6:52pm PST 
Here's the problem with breeders who FOCUS on titles - many, and I do mean MANY of these dogs have genetic issues from being so in-bred. I'm not talking health clearances here - which are extremely important. I'm talking about dogs with a predisposition to major health issues such as cancer or other similar issues. The show dogs with all the titles are bred to look just like the breed standard - but there is NOTHING that tells you what the temperament is like. The most reputable breeders require a spay/neuter contract with very limited exceptions for the most exceptional puppies. It is irresponsible for people to purchase a puppy with champion bloodlines and expect that puppy to also be a champion unless they are paying an exhorbitant price. It is a minute percentage of litters that produce the titled dogs. It is wonderful to have that in the background - but health clearances are far more important than titles. And a pretty dog is lovely, but if it doesn't have a good temperament why would you want to breed to it - much less own a puppy from the litters?

Spooky Mulder
Barked: Tue Sep 4, '12 5:19pm PST 
but there is NOTHING that tells you what the temperament is like.

You're joking... right?

First off, lets take Goldens as an example, seeing as that was the original (albeit OLD) topic.

Goldens were/are bred to retrieve birds.

You take a Golden onto the field, fire a gun a few feet away from its face, and you don't think that's testing its temperament? You send a dog into a half frozen lake and send it out on a retrieve, ask him to bring that bird back and you don't think that's testing his temperament?

I'm sorry, but you really don't understand what you're saying at all.

Inbreeding has nothing at all to do with how well a dog does in shows, or how many titles it has. Management of the COI lies in the lap of the breeder, and the BREEDER ALONE. There are breeders who care about and pay attention to it, and breeders who don't. ALL purebred dogs are inbred to some degree, so don't you dare think you're getting off the hook on the inbreeding conundrum just because your dog doesn't come from titled lines. That's an absolutely massive fallacy. ALL breeds were created with some degree of interbreeding, "breeds" as we know them couldn't exist without it, and having that Golden Retriever you love so much absolutely without a doubt COULD NOT HAPPEN without some degree of inbreeding.

A dog that does well at shows or who titles only shows how well he preforms his correct and original purpose. If your dog cannot preform the functions for which it was bred, then what is the point of continuing to breed them?

If your Golden cannot retrieve, then it shouldn't hold the name of "Retriever" and should not be bred. And forgive me for being cynical, but saying you toss a ball for him in the backyard and swear up and down he brings it back to you is NOT an objective test of his abilities, and means absolutely nothing for the long-term health and survival of the breed.

Edited by author Tue Sep 4, '12 5:22pm PST


The Muddy- Princess
Barked: Wed Sep 5, '12 6:12am PST 
Mulder, I think the prior poster was referring to titles from breed competitions not from performance or field events.

I agree that COIs are tricky and that they are only as good as the dogs behind them. My Selli's COI is 12%, she is line-bred on a healthy successful talented dog and is extremely healthy. I know healthy Goldens with COIs over 20% and my new pup has a COI less than 1% since his breeder specifically does not agree with line-breeding.

Clearances (the big four; hips, elbows, eyes (yearly) and heart) are more important than titles BUT a truly reputable breeder does both.

dog-sitter in- charge.
Barked: Thu Sep 6, '12 10:05am PST 
Selli, that is the COI over how many generations?
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