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Dogs & Hunting

This is a place to gain some understanding of dog behavior and to assist people in training their dogs and dealing with common behavior problems, regardless of the method(s) used. This can cover the spectrum from non-aversive to traditional methods of dog training. There are many ways to train a dog. Please avoid aggressive responses, and counter ideas and opinions with which you don't agree with friendly and helpful advice. Please refrain from submitting posts that promote off-topic discussions. Keep in mind that you may be receiving advice from other dog owners and lovers... not professionals. If you have a major problem, always seek the advice of a trainer or behaviorist!

  
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Trigger

*Blackdog*
 
 
Barked: Thu Jan 3, '13 9:58pm PST 
"These folks would find the viewpoints posted here just as repellent and ridiculous as the some Dogsters find hunting to be. Does that make them right? No, of course not. Does that make the Dogsters right? No, of course not. It's simply a difference of opinion."

This I can agree with.
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Bon Temps

Super hard robot- puma dog
 
 
Barked: Thu Jan 3, '13 10:00pm PST 
Trigger, I've never heard anyone discuss it either, laugh out loud I just know that I've eaten a variety of game, including deer that have been blood trailed/tracked and hogs that have been bayed & then killed with a knife - and never had a problem with gamey taste. Maybe those prey animals don't get so stressed out here in Texas. laugh out loud
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Jackson Tan

Lad about town
 
 
Barked: Thu Jan 3, '13 10:16pm PST 
Ah, I knew you'd get here eventually, Bon Temps! Yah, you treat your hog dogs the best of anyone I know, online or real life. Like loads of people probably do. I certainly don't want to see it banned, just like I don't want to see mushing, sheep herding, or other sorts of hunting banned just because a few bad apples treat their dogs poorly. Wild pork is yummy, too! God speed to ya!

I personally would not let my dog run on deer or roos because I feel it's unsafe, and in the case of deer, illegal. I do feel like that's asking for trouble. I don't wanna get up in anyone's face about it, that's just my stance.

I'm sure lots of people wouldn't like me letting my dog hunt rabbits, and that's cool ... I'm happy to agree to disagree when it comes to dogster! Sometimes that's the only way you can go here, lol. laugh out loud
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Kye

I'm like- Einstein only- hairier.
 
 
Barked: Thu Jan 3, '13 10:30pm PST 
I personally dont think that using dogs lessens the survival chances of the animal being hunted. Deer manage to avoid wolves, bears, cougars, etc. so what is a pack of dogs really? I know the deer, or what have you, are probably stressed out but that happens in nature when they encounter predators. They're equipped to handle it or they wouldn't survive long.
I think sitting in a blind all day waiting for something to kill and baiting are the most unsportsmanlike ways to hunt, canned hunts being the worst IMO. I personally believe that any animal should only be hunted if the hunter intends on using the carcass. I hate it when people shoot moose, deer or elk and just take the antlers D:< Deer are a big problem around here and often dangerous for motorists and hunting is better then if the Government would just cull them and waste all that meat. I don't like the hunting of bears, wolves, cougars, coyotes, lynx or bobcat (there may be more but you all get the gist) because so much is wasted when they only want the pelt. Fur farms appall me as well.

The health and well being of the dogs is always a must. I am with Shiver Me Timbers "Charlie" in regards to the treatment of Beagles, among other hunting breeds, used for hunting.

My two cents hamster dance

Edited by author Thu Jan 3, '13 10:40pm PST

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Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Thu Jan 3, '13 10:47pm PST 
I actually just looked this stuff up on a hunting forum. Seems a controversy there, too. Some really interesting comments. Some all for it, some said inhumane, some said not really hunting, some said shut up to all because if AR gets to shut down one form of hunting another will follow.

Re the hog hunters, I know Bon Temps mom runs with a good crowd. There's also a not good group who drops their leftover litters like stale Spam at the shelters I cover. A few years back, with the AB thing, I was working with a GSD friend in TX, who had founded a Lab rescue when she learned there wasn't one in her area shock, and there was this very sweet kill shelter.....horrifying, the beautiful dogs that showed up there in droves. They'd stash dogs in crates in their garage if they thought a rescue was sincere and would come take the dog but they had not the room to keep them. There were some gross hog hunters in that area. This shelter loathed them with a passion and cried tears of joy when a rescue showed up for one of their big bullies, for that dog escaped the hands of the hunters, who the shelter said ran through them like candy and didn't mind saying so either. A very eery shelter scene. The cute small fluffy dogs floundered there, but I never saw a shelter where big bullies were scooped up so fast. That was the first time I heard of hog hunting...learned of it from the shelter people and how sickened they were of the fates of many of those dogs, but it was either euth them or give them some brand of a fighting chance. It haunted everyone pulling from there, though. I know some do it right, do it better. But the ones in LA....I am just sickened by the number of litter drop offs. The south is a hot spot. The coonie guys, the hog guys....if you took them out of the equation, the numbers would plummet by 40% in my estimation. Pit Bulls end up strangely not the majority there, and due to crowding the shelters a lot of dogs outside of that fray end up dying for space.

Thanks for the convos, Trig....this stuff always does my heart good smile
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Kye

I'm like- Einstein only- hairier.
 
 
Barked: Thu Jan 3, '13 10:53pm PST 
Forgot to add that I agree with everything Sanka said on the 3rd page in response to Trigger. In fact I agree with Sanka's responses on page 4 as well.
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Bon Temps

Super hard robot- puma dog
 
 
Barked: Thu Jan 3, '13 11:25pm PST 
" There's also a not good group who drops their leftover litters like stale Spam at the shelters I cover."

Believe it or not, there's a group worse that that - those are the ones that just cull the litter, with no second thoughts. They might wait until the puppies are 6 weeks old, then take out what they think are the best ones & cull the rest. Really......unpleasant.
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Trigger

*Blackdog*
 
 
Barked: Fri Jan 4, '13 5:47am PST 
"Thanks for the convos, Trig....this stuff always does my heart good"

Ditto!

I think this is one of those topics that should never go stale.



Kye - I would be interested in hearing what exactly you disagree so vehemently against or for, that's kind of unclear. I understand you said you don't like deer hunting (or rather I don't understand that but I do accept it lol) but how do you feel about the topic of using dogs in hunting?


BT - psychoanalysists would argue you can't taste something you staunchly deny could be there wink
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Sanka- I'll Miss- You

The ground is my- newspaper.
 
 
Barked: Fri Jan 4, '13 7:18am PST 
Are someone else's lines really that offensive to you simply because they don't jive with your own?

Where others draw the line don't bother me. But calling where I draw the line as tortuous, cruel and morally corrupt is quite offensive.

You are comparing an actual kill sequence that needs to be perpetuated in nature for it to sustain itself, to an unnecessary and prolonged pursuit for human fun.

...but you were the one who brought up hunting as being fun in the first place.shrug

Look at it like this....if I had a pet rabbit I wouldn't let my dogs bark at it incessantly. It *would* terrify the thing and there's just no reason for that. Agree or no?

With the question, agree. But incessant barking at a rabbit in an enclosed area is not comparable to barking a few minutes or an hour at a creature with several escape routes in the wild. Not chase is incessant.

Again this goes back to biology 101. When that sort of damage is done to heart, lungs and/or liver a living being usually has seconds to live and no time to comprehend what's just happened.

I can't tell you how many blood trails their are. There is no way you can tell me that a deer doesn't have any pain. You questioned how I "knew" what was going on in a deer's head, and now you're saying a deer can't comprehend that it has significant pain after being shot?

It has nothing to do with the money, it's entirely about experience.

Then why continually point out how you spend thousands of dollars on them?

I disagree that letting your dogs run deer on hikes makes anyone any sort of expert.

Never claimed to be an expert, and I run into deer more often than just on hikes. What seeing my dog run on deer does do is give me a first hand account on what happens when a deer is chased. Rather than make up stuff about them being so incredibly stressed by a chase, especially by one who's never experienced it. I don't see how one can have much leverage on a deer's reaction to being chased when they don't witness it.

And that's sort of the claim you're making telling everyone exactly what a deer thinks, reacts and feels while being pursued.

Again, no. I've been stating their reactions, not thoughts. A few quick leaps away from trouble is not the same as a deer running in a flew blown panic. Reading body language gives you insight into their current feelings, not thoughts. Don't confuse the 2.

A coon or bayed hog may have "clear warning of danger" that it's about to die, but at that point death is inevitable so what exactly is the point?

Death isn't inevitable. You're not alerting it to death. You're alerting it to danger. Stepping on twigs or human voice is an alert to incoming danger. Do you not walk around for fear of "alerting animals of their death" because you make a sound that makes them run?

And for that extended amount of time?

What time? Why do you just assume everything is just hours of endless torment and torture? It's minutes. At worst, an hour.

Putting a pack of dogs on an animal however removes nearly if not all of that critters advantage and any sporting chance the animal has to beat the human.

What?! Are you seriously claiming that putting dogs out means the animal can't smell, hear or see incoming danger? All the stuff you listed about being busted doesn't just go away with dogs. Dogs: smelly, loud, bumbling creatures. If a deer busts you by changing wind, then they most certainly will bust a pack of dogs breaking every stick whilst announcing their arrival by loud bays.

Where is that coming from??

I quote all that I reply to, so it's obvious what that reply is to. Quotes are in bold in case you didn't notice.

And again, I don't have to worry about any legal apprehension because any deer chased in done so on private land. Private land owned by my uncle, who's a farmer, and who has to deal with damage to crops caused by all sorts of critters. Chasing the deer off for that instance is far better than killing them.
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Trigger

*Blackdog*
 
 
Barked: Fri Jan 4, '13 7:45am PST 
Okie dokes then Sanka lol.

With all your incessant twisting I'm not inclined to go into any more detail with you at this point way to go
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