The ground is my- newspaper.
|Barked: Thu Jan 3, '13 6:44pm PST |
|With anything in life practice to hone skill is pertinent. Not sure why firearms are an exception in your mind?
I wasn't saying there is no skill in shooting guns. I was saying that it's quite easy to sit still, have a deer come to you and knock it down with a few shotgun blasts, which is what a lot of deer hunters do. Sure shooting a deer 50 yards out takes skill, but if you're going to compare killing a hog close up as not having skill, then you have to level the playing field. Killing anything close up, regardless of previous circumstance doesn't take much skill at all. Which was my whole point.
A genuine question.....you tree that coon, shoot it, and it falls to the ground injured but not dead. Do you go up and kick it? Swing it around by it's tail? Skin it live?
I'm going to assume that's an obvious no......because it's beyond cruel right? Why on earth would you torture an animal like that? The pursuit by domesticated dogs and subsequent mental anguish involved with treeing, or holding, is seen the same way by many.
I'm not sure how to make that any clearer for you.
Don't get your pants in a bundle there. You are seriously comparing a dog chasing a critter to shooting a critter and then kicking it? You really think that's even a remotely close comparison? Don't go into the extremes, please.
Sure, being chased isn't fun, but I don't see it as "torture" when it's an animal meant to be chased, used to being chased, and quite good at escaping the chase. I have never seen a deer stressed out by it. Not even close. They hop and skip away without effort, leaving the dog in the dust in seconds. Why are you making deer out to be such horribly fragile creatures?
Again with the silly claims of descriptions I've never used.....
Trigger, come on now, I quoted your words. You said "There is no normal predator sequence in nature that takes that amount of time to dispatch the prey. It's got to be just an awful stretch for the animal doomed to die."
To which I replied that you should watch more animal documentaries because there are plenty of such cases. It's not a silly claim of something you never said. I've quoted your words twice on it now. What are you denying?
I don't see how you can compare running around as being the same as being eaten alive in terms of absolute misery. Being chased is no where near the same as being eaten alive. Heck, cheetahs capture young and let their little ones "play" with the captured young for a time before deciding to eat it.
You can try to make it sound like deer shot with guns and bows always die on the spot happy as a clam, but that's not realistic."
Where did I ever say anything like that??
You said: "There is no stress and most times an animal will never even know it's hit before it's dead."
I'll admit you didn't say always, but you did make it out like it was painless and a majority of the time painless. I couldn't disagree more with that.
I suppose it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of YOUR life if the chickens you eat lived their entire lives in a cage the size of a shoe box...but I'm sure it mattered to the chicken.....just as it would matter if it was plucked to death before being killed as opposed to sparing it that experience.
Are you seriously going to take jabs at my eating choices and suggest that what I believe in/do is really "torture & cruelty?" A bit extreme, again. You may not like it, but again, let's be real. No way is a dog chasing prey torture. You must absolutely hate beagles and coonhounds then.
I'm still unsure how you know so much about what goes on inside the mind of a deer.
You spend time killing and feeding them. I spend time hiking and bumping into them. I never said I know what's inside their minds, but I know about their actions and reactions. I don't sit still for hours waiting for them to come by. I go out and meet them there. The deer I've seen throughout my life...I don't think I could count that high.
I don't know why you keep coming off like I'm a complete imbecile on deer simply because I'm not a hunter. Do I have to start killing things to become legitimized? Or do I have to start spending "thousands" on them? Is money the only way to one up people now? I don't need to know national population trends as I only live in one area and don't hunt. What good will that do to me? And how does knowing where deer live have any impact on this debate? Good grief, the arrogance is through the roof here.
In the end you're the only one that's going to have to answer for your actions on a legal and moral level.
And again, like mentioned several times before, I don't. Morally it doesn't bother me one bit. I've seen it with my own eyes, dogs running on deer. It is nothing like you keep imaging. Maybe the deer you hunt are just sickly, weak creatures. But here, they leave a dog in the dust in 3 bounds, and they know they can too. They're inconvenienced, not tortured.
The difference to me being that nature, and animals which have no other choice but to hunt for food, all do it out of desperation to one degree or another.
I'm sorry, but why do humans not count as nature anymore? And why do we have to stop doing natural things since the advent of the supermarket?
And if hunting now is just a sport, why allow any of it to begin with if it's so morally damaging and quite unnecessary?
Adding that in natural behaviors, predators will source out the vulnerable...old, young, sick.
Sooo, you don't like hunters as they don't go for the sick, young or old?
Moreover, no predator on this earth hunts by baying in a crazed frenzy from a distance away, and it comes closer and closer. That to me is cruel.
Cruel? Here's another angle of how I view it, a clear warning of danger rather than hearing a faint rustle and having to be on full alert without knowing where danger is. In terms of sport, that's more than fair. Much more fair than sitting still and shooting without warning. In terms of sport, that is giving the deer quite an advantage. They hear you coming. I still don't see how that can be perceived as cruel.
The loss of a buck to the natural population doesn't mean the loss of any life other than his own. But a doe is the loss of a next generation.
Last I checked, deer don't reproduce by immaculate conception. I know plenty of hunters who get ticked at the masses just taking the bucks. It DOES cause quite an issue in terms of local population.
Edited by author Thu Jan 3, '13 6:47pm PST
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