|Barked: Thu Jan 3, '13 2:01pm PST |
|"Not trying to be picky, but I never said you NEED dogs. You technically don't need guns either, but we'll just leave it be."
I was speaking in terms of dispatching pests. In that arena yes, firearms are the fastest, most effective and most humane way to harvest or cull from all standpoints (it should go without saying that accuracy would be a factor with any method used).
"I've seen that with hogs, but not with deer. No dog can corner a deer in the wild. And if it's a hound, it most likely isn't even going to try."
I don't know of anywhere (at least in the United States) where hunting deer with dogs is legal, so of course I wouldn't expect any dog to ever corner a deer. I was talking coons (no escape from a tree) and hogs (no escape from a pack).
The thought of dogs pursuing ungulates never even crossed my mind because I've never heard of anyone but poachers ever being interested in allowing their dogs to do such a thing.
"Don't know why the diss on "skill." I could sit in a stand and kill a deer with a shotgun easily, and it's easy to say that I don't have any skill with guns."
Walking up to a giant animal being "held" by dogs and shooting it 10 feet away from your person has nothing to do with any sort of skill.
As far as your deer scenario, shooting ACCURATELY does require skill whether you choose to acknowledge that or not. I've never heard anyone ever in my entire life argue otherwise.
My school aged children this very moment could gut shoot or wound any animal out of stand with a shotgun or rifle too, and ultimately that indeed would lead to it's death.....but that's exactly why they aren't legal to hunt yet and why to be so someday they're going to need to take a class stressing the importance of safety, accuracy and ethics. All good hunters take time to hone their skill so as to avoid to the best of their ability the scenario Tiller shared of the hunter having remorse over a bad shot.
The occasional bad shot still happens to the most experienced hunter due to a myriad of circumstances.
There is no way someone can tell me someone with little or absolutely no experience has similar odds. Would be like saying a 15 year old with a learners permit can drive a car as well as a 40 year old semi-truck driver.
With anything in life practice to hone skill is pertinent. Not sure why firearms are an exception in your mind?
"Nature's not forgiving is all I can say. Hunting, no matter how you spin it, is never sympathetic either. You can try to make it sound like deer shot with guns and bows always die on the spot happy as a clam, but that's not realistic."
Where did I ever say anything like that??
The only thing I've ever claimed is that it's the most humane way to dispatch or cull an animal. And that everything that happens before and after that shot is solely based on what the law requires should or an individual hunters ethics.
A genuine question.....you tree that coon, shoot it, and it falls to the ground injured but not dead. Do you go up and kick it? Swing it around by it's tail? Skin it live?
I'm going to assume that's an obvious no......because it's beyond cruel right? Why on earth would you torture an animal like that? The pursuit by domesticated dogs and subsequent mental anguish involved with treeing, or holding, is seen the same way by many.
I'm not sure how to make that any clearer for you.
"I suggest you watch some old Wild Kingdom documentaries. Animals are quite often eaten while still alive. I really don't get how you, as a hunter, keep perceiving nature to be so forgiving. It can take quite a long time for animals to dispatch prey. I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy for them to be preyed upon by hyenas. Bears rip the flesh right off of fish swept right out of the river. Let's not kid ourselves, life is brutal."
Again with the silly claims of descriptions I've never used.....
Being ADEPT and PROFICIENT has nothing to do with being forgiving.
An animal may start to be consumed while it's still alive but it doesn't take an hour to finally put the prey out of it's misery.
"Nobody likes seeing it. The same as how one could argue how anyone could stomach killing anything via any method. You can turn it whatever way you want. It's never fun to see an animal killed. But we aren't made to live forever either."
Indeed we aren't made to live forever, but we also aren't made to be tortured in death. Imho there is absolutely no way to justify cruelty or torture.
I don't mind people struggling with what I do, I don't at all mind if it's something someone else could never fathom doing themselves. I eat meat. I feel some sort of moral pull to take full responsibility for that process, have the opportunity to do so, and I do. That doesn't mean my sense of compassion goes out the window. I don't eat factory farmed meats for the same reasons I hunt the way I do. I suppose it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of YOUR life if the chickens you eat lived their entire lives in a cage the size of a shoe box...but I'm sure it mattered to the chicken.....just as it would matter if it was plucked to death before being killed as opposed to sparing it that experience.
"You say you don't let your dogs run on deer, but I have and do."
I don't just say it, I don't allow it period nor will I ever.
I think we've been down this road before, but it's worth mentioning again, if it's illegal where you're at I strongly suggest you stop that.
I'm still unsure how you know so much about what goes on inside the mind of a deer. We spend thousands each year feeding them, providing habitat for them, photographing them, studying our local herds, researching state and nationwide population trends and effects, contributing to local and widespread conservation efforts, attending conferences and banquets......and I still feel like I know next to nothing about them
Aaaaaall of that said, by all means, if you want to partake then go ahead and do just that. In the end you're the only one that's going to have to answer for your actions on a legal and moral level.
Edited by author Thu Jan 3, '13 2:12pm PST
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