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Dogs & Hunting

This is a place to gain some understanding of dog behavior and to assist people in training their dogs and dealing with common behavior problems, regardless of the method(s) used. This can cover the spectrum from non-aversive to traditional methods of dog training. There are many ways to train a dog. Please avoid aggressive responses, and counter ideas and opinions with which you don't agree with friendly and helpful advice. Please refrain from submitting posts that promote off-topic discussions. Keep in mind that you may be receiving advice from other dog owners and lovers... not professionals. If you have a major problem, always seek the advice of a trainer or behaviorist!

  
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Sanka- I'll Miss- You

The ground is my- newspaper.
 
 
Barked: Wed Jan 2, '13 8:12am PST 
This article brought up something I just never understood.

There are so many methods when it comes to hunting, yet it seems the majority seem to all dislike hunting with dogs. As in, the dogs go out and tree animals or hold animals or chase animals so the hunter can shoot them.

I really don't get the dislike for it.shrug

I mean, there are shotguns, bows, spears, trapping, baiting, etc. And none of those methods are guaranteed to be "painless" or quick. So why the hate on using dogs?
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Lenny

Lenny -The- Wrecking Ball
 
 
Barked: Wed Jan 2, '13 8:33am PST 
My guess would be some people feel there's too much risk to the dog in addition to the pursuit of the prey which I guess seems too stressful of a way to go?

I myself have no problem with the use of bird dogs or of dogs used to tree prey, but I do find things like hog hunting a little scary and it seems much more dangerous for the dog. However, I realize that those dogs are bred for that (whether you want to see that as good or bad I don't know) and that those dogs thrive on their 'job'.
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Trigger

*Blackdog*
 
 
Barked: Wed Jan 2, '13 8:48am PST 
Bottom line for a lot of an individual hunters ethics is advantage.

Where is the sporting chance if a dog can literally lead you right to the animal? With a dogs nose being as powerful as it is you might as well tag the animal with a beacon and then go after it that way later on. An animal can't shake it's scent, and therefor doesn't stand a chance. Further, being pursued by dogs stresses the animal out significantly. Not only is that cruel but it literally causes biological changes that render the meat literally inedible.

With firearms, bows and spears there is still the element of chance and skill that can sway the animals chance at survival. There is no stress and most times an animal will never even know it's hit before it's dead.

I disagree with trapping with the exception of occurring in the name of conservation and baiting is just all out disgusting imho.

To clarify a point not mentioned but on the same lines of baiting - we are food plot enthusiasts. We put thousands of dollars and tons of time into ours each year *BUT* they are to keep existing populations healthy and although we hunt around them we don't hunt over them. We may take two deer off of our property yet continue to feed 300 more through the winter months. There is a biiiiiiig difference between that and dropping a crap pile of free bakery goods on a trail bears frequent just so people can set up on a weekend and take the biggest one never to return again.
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Rigby

Dingbat
 
 
Barked: Wed Jan 2, '13 8:49am PST 
I was wondering the same thing.
The majority of these dogs love what they do.

Makes me wonder what's next, banning of the guardian breed's jobs?

Seems to me that people are refusing to understand that dogs were bred for jobs, not all of them are happy sitting on the couch all day.

ETA:
I get that it does take an aspect of the "sport" out of it.
But IMO a lot of forms of hunting lack the sport and skill as well.

Banning pit fighting and such I definitely understand, as there's no real outcome to it aside from money gain/loss.
But with hunting the prey can be eaten or put to otherwise good use.

Edited by author Wed Jan 2, '13 8:53am PST

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Sanka- I'll Miss- You

The ground is my- newspaper.
 
 
Barked: Wed Jan 2, '13 8:54am PST 
But if the hunt isn't just for sport, what's the problem with using dogs?

As for stressing the animal out, I can see that to a point, but plenty of animals that are shot still manage to run off a distance before they're dead. Even good shots can do that. Does that not stress them out?

And yeah, stressed meat does taste bad, but if you intend to give it to your dogs, does that matter?
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Trigger

*Blackdog*
 
 
Barked: Wed Jan 2, '13 9:07am PST 
It's all in the ethics Sanka and really has nothing to do with post intent. I could without blinking an eye shoot someone who was breaking into my house and set on doing me harm, but I couldn't fathom shooting someone who refused to use their turn signal in front of me on the road. What was done with the deceased is completely irrelevant.

It's not just about the hunter, it's about how you feel taking that life and giving the animal you're hunting a sporting chance.

May sound awful but compare it to a game. Where's the fun if a professional comes in and annihilates a toddler?

That's the difference between canned hunts and non in any regard. The animal has NO CHANCE and where on earth is the respect in that? Using dogs to corner prey with no escape is the equivalent in the mind of many hunters.


Most who hunt have their own personal code of ethics they follow beyond what the law requires. Bottom line, it only needs to make sense in the mind of the one pulling the trigger.

Edited by author Wed Jan 2, '13 9:09am PST

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Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Wed Jan 2, '13 9:38am PST 
I agree with everything Trig said which is awfully nice as she's a hunter, I am SO not, but so drawn to animal issues since I was six have spent decades evolving my ethic. So it's nice to agree smile

I was thrilled to read that as I loathe treeing. It is so cruel....far crueler than a bad shot, and one thing I can tell you, Sanka, is not only is it far more of a stress to be in a protracted run for your life and a totally unfair advantage, but a hunter who has fired a bad shot is emotionally very upset while those following their treeing dogs are on a high and in a state of enjoyment. That's a stark difference.

Certain things, as our cultures evolve, change. Dogs used to (and alas in some countries still are), be used bear and bull baiting. Which they enjoyed, and so did we. Dogs can be bred for aggression and not mind fighting either....you sometimes see in PBs what I call "happy aggression," just this weird high aggression with this excited bark and waggy tail. Itchin' We're past that now.

So it's already happened, again and again. As we evolve past certain things, breeds get outmoded. Some breeds survive...fanciers take them off and go to dog shows wink But the time for that dog, culturally speaking, is gone. Turnspit dogs...not hunting dogs, but another example.

I don't think injuries to the treeing dogs was the motivation...just thrown in for good measure. The main welfare concern was the inhumaneness of the hunting style.

And I will say that....I noted someone on that article whining that it was putting breeders out of business. I almost put up a snarky comment. They are some of the biggest pains in the butt when it comes to the shelter crisis of the south, and the Catahoula BYBs are no better. Taking everything from litters past a good selling age to strays to dump offs. Really big difference between them and the sporting breed dogs, which is more about the partnership between a man and his dog. Hounds and their ilk can be a dime a dozen.
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Trigger

*Blackdog*
 
 
Barked: Wed Jan 2, '13 11:31am PST 
Tiller - would you believe I was once an aspiring vegan? shock


I have an incredible amount of seemingly ridiculous things I won't do as a hunter. Prime example, I got out plenty of times this year to both bow and gun hunt and all I seemed to see were loads of fawns and button/fork bucks. We practice QDMA standards as our property is certified by them, so those were all no goes. A buck aged a minimum of 4 years or a doe is what I was after.

Last week I had off so I braved sub zero temps in hopes of taking a buck late bow season. Why were does off the table at that point? Because at this point they were likely bred and I don't like the thought of taking two or three deer as opposed to one.


Although I understand the principal behind harvesting a doe with older fawns in tow (as they'll then be more inclined to remain local), I have trouble doing that too and would only go that far if conservation absolutely necessitated it (I blame Disney for that.....Bambi still cuts deep!!)

Heck if my doe is without fawn but still really bagged up when I field dress her it twinges the heart.


I prefer to hunt racks but not for the reasons most people assume......

Same goes for if we've got both Trig and Hoyt out. If they're both on, and I mean ON as far as working together, if a bird gets up I'll let it get way up and out a ways before I'll take the shot. I just feel better about it that way.


I've been known to help free trapped butterflies and moths from my enclosed stands when I'm sitting......I figure it's all good karma but I don't tend to share things like that with many I know even though I know full well most I hunt with are just as superstitious and softy hearted in their own ways.....even if they'd never admit it under ordinary circumstances. I knew a guy once who would grab a handful of carrots of a stalk of celery to take out to his stand because rabbits lived under it and he liked to feed them while he was out there (I'm totally not married to that guy or anything....and he wouldn't kill me if he knew I told anyone such a thing......) Many of us are mush piles with bigger hearts than most and the public will never know shh

Edited by author Wed Jan 2, '13 11:37am PST

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Dylan aka- Dilly

frisbee- s rule
 
 
Barked: Wed Jan 2, '13 12:17pm PST 
I havent read the hunting dog ban, so not sure what all it covers, but around here it wouldnt hurt to put some hound breeders out of business. small town shelters are full of beagle or hound mixes. my sister adopted a coon hound mix to go with her beagle mix.
and after haveing 4 chows, the change is proving a handfull for her.

but to stop a lab from retrieving? thats just wrong.



and to add a little story about the cruel hunters
my hubby hunts, for 1 deer a year

well, he came in one day and said he had something for me. I`m not cleaning, cooking or eatting anything. no come out here.
well in his truck was the biggest white rabbit I have ever seen, it prolly weighed 25lbs.

can you fix it? he asked
on closer look, it had been shot, either small cal. or to far away, the bullet didnt penetrate the skull, but went in the side and out between the ears, it was really infected. he said he just walked right up and picked the critter up.very tame, wasnt at all afraid of our dogs.
after getting it all cleaned up and healed I thought it was a male, so I called him henry,I gave it to a freiend for her daughter. ummm well, henry gave birth to 12 babies! and became hennritta. dog was I glad I had giving her away
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Dylan aka- Dilly

frisbee- s rule
 
 
Barked: Wed Jan 2, '13 12:22pm PST 
just went and read it. and I think I have to support that kind of ban. too much like the fox hunting it mentioned
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