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Eldad Hagar

This is a place to gain some understanding of dog behavior and to assist people in training their dogs and dealing with common behavior problems, regardless of the method(s) used. This can cover the spectrum from non-aversive to traditional methods of dog training. There are many ways to train a dog. Please avoid aggressive responses, and counter ideas and opinions with which you don't agree with friendly and helpful advice. Please refrain from submitting posts that promote off-topic discussions. Keep in mind that you may be receiving advice from other dog owners and lovers... not professionals. If you have a major problem, always seek the advice of a trainer or behaviorist!

  
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Sanka- I'll Miss- You

The ground is my- newspaper.
 
 
Barked: Mon Dec 3, '12 7:41am PST 
I've seen a lot of praise for this guy. And I praise him too. He does a lot of good. But the videos of him show him doing a sort of flooding technique that I think many Dogsters would despise. What do you think when it comes to how he handled Ralph?

Ralph
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Kolbe

Where can I run- today?
 
 
Barked: Mon Dec 3, '12 8:11am PST 
I think he could have approached that a little better but it wasn't *that* bad, I just didn't get the whole, "No no no no no, no no no no. No no no" 80 billion times, since the dog obviously doesn't know what no means anyway. I guess it was just habit or whatever. We also don't know exactly how much time he was spending with the dog in that room, so I'm assuming this was a little time-lapsed, if it wasn't, I might have spent a little more time allowing the dog to approach me first. I get that he was trying to get to the point of being able to touch the dog so that he could begin to turn off his reflex to defend himself and see that the touch was not going to hurt him. Overall the outcome was obviously positive and while he did use flooding, he was not physical with the dog, and achieved what he was trying to do.
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Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Mon Dec 3, '12 5:20pm PST 
I really don't like the term "flooding" with dogs as it is oft incorrectly used, and moreover there is not language for us to express much to them. I think with a dog like this,I don't know what is irrational about him. It's all pretty rational. He's alone, fending for himself, in a world that is scary while confined by a fence. So if things come too close, he bites. Sounds like a pretty good strategy to me. He certainly could have been a lot more aggressive than he was. He was doing what he knew to keep danger safely held, and pretty much softened when he felt that touch. Those who have horses, particularly spooky horses, deal with this regularly, and it isn't flooding there shrug You just circle and drive him forward enough times to get him to pass the object of his terror and then he's pretty quick to realize it is fine.

It's as I always say, functional vs dysfunctional minds....there really is a difference. I think the original responses of the dog, particularly in that I see some JRT in there, were reasonably contained and normal under the circumstances. Much like spooky horses could technically buck you off, flip themselves, etc. They are perfectly rational, they just think they are right and you clueless until they pass the scary object, and then they settle.
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Farley

Farlekiin the- Dragonborn
 
 
Barked: Mon Dec 3, '12 6:37pm PST 
What a lovely video.. made me tear up of course. cloud 9
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Sanka- I'll Miss- You

The ground is my- newspaper.
 
 
Barked: Mon Dec 3, '12 7:27pm PST 
I'm certainly not berating him. I actually found it quite amazing in how you see the dog go through all the motions and eventually just let it all in. Reminds me of a certain show on a certain channel that is mentioned here countless times.wink

But it interests me as to what other Dogsters think about this video. This would be considering "flooding" by most here, right? In an average thread, speaking about doing this would, in what I'm assuming, be put down as simply cruel or unnecessary. Yet, I haven't really seen people talk about this guy much. He has a few other videos basically showing the same thing.

Edited by author Mon Dec 3, '12 7:27pm PST

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Member Since
05/21/2010
 
 
Barked: Mon Dec 3, '12 8:30pm PST 
Eldad is awesome! I've been a 'fan' of him for quite a while (though not an avid follower, except for posts on fb), even before he popped up on Dogster. He is just a regular guy who loves rescuing dogs. From my understanding of the way he works, many times he gets calls asking for his help with dogs like this that need to be trapped. For that, he usually travels quite a bit, even flying to where the dog is located and staying either the day, and coming back the next if he is not successful the first attempt, and even spending a night (or several) at a motel. He has to catch the dogs quickly, but will still spend hours or days doing so. I believe he has rescues, individuals, or something like that lined up to take the dog once it has been rescued. Whether you want to call what he did with Ralph 'flooding' or something else, I think he does it to get the dog over its fear as quickly as possible so it can be more adoptable, and less chance of being labeled as 'aggressive' or 'too fearful' after he leaves. Because once he leaves, that dog is usually in someone else's hands, so he does not have the luxury to spend days/weeks/months trying to get the dog to trust people as some others might have. As in the thread with ecollars and the shelter dog about to be euthed..sometimes you don't have the time to use preferred methods. I personally do not find this method cruel/inhumane/etc. In my mind, it is kinder than allowing the animal to live in fear for days, or even months/years on end with less possibility of being adopted. Though I would also like to hear what others have to say on the matter.puppy

Ralph looks soo adorable! smile
~Twister

ETA: On the 'no,no.no...' I would agree that is prob just out of habit...but it also sounded to me that when he does that, it was more of a soothing methodical thing to say than simply being a sharp correction (he did said 'hey,hey' once more sharply).

Edited by author Mon Dec 3, '12 8:34pm PST

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Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Mon Dec 3, '12 8:38pm PST 
Ok, I have looked at some more. He's awesome. That's all laugh out loud

He was doing that play thing also I was talking about on some other thread that I was saying I find calms and levels dogs so quickly (vs food). Handling dogs in street situations that you couldn't pay me to....so yeah, call me a new groupie laugh out loud If you tell me he has a huge following, I can total see why.

I'd imagine some here would have some problem as he obviously believes brief pressure on a stressed dog can be worth it. He obviously has an approach of great intimacy, surrounded with much care and dogs sense that.

I think he's awesome smile Very interesting he says he avoids reading about training because he doesn't want it to get in his head and interrupt his more instinctive and street-built instincts. I think that's a good call on his part. He's naturally very gifted.
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Lobo

"Stubborn" dogs- don't need- corrections
 
 
Barked: Mon Dec 3, '12 8:47pm PST 
I like him and everything he does for dogs. I don't like his method of flooding.

That said, however, he's also quiet and isn't as forceful as some are. I do wish he took some more time with dogs, but I've also seen videos where he spent HOURS and even a couple of days with the dog.

Overall, he's a really good person, and I would love to see more people who had such big hearts. Eldad was my inspiration, so of course I think highly of him. He's the main reason I wanted to open up a shelter. Now, through learning about dog psychology, I plan to do something a little differently, but Eldad will always be in my mind. (:
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Miyu CGC

Bow down to the- Princess Brat!
 
 
Barked: Mon Dec 3, '12 10:37pm PST 
That's a pretty amazing video. It's interesting to see the moment when Ralph kind of 'gives in', like Sanka said. It does make you smile, to see the change in him. I am curious to see how long it actually took.

And that boy ain't going to last long. Wouldn't surprise me if somebody's already snapped him up. He's a cutie.
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Jackson Tan

Lad about town
 
 
Barked: Tue Dec 4, '12 1:36am PST 
What a great guy, and what a lovely video. I loved seeing Ralph come out of his shell at the end.
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