|Barked: Sat Dec 1, '12 9:02am PST |
|Tyler wrote, "Sorry Guest, are you Lou Castle that was mentioned earlier? If not no worries. I know i was scanning through an old post on another UK based forum ( that i was not apart of ) where Lou Castle hasn't gone down well and is banned from the site!
Also, i guess there are some people out there that care more about the sport than the dog having fun etc, like Mulder pointed out. But if all you care about is winning and precision then i feel really sorry for those dogs when they get it wrong or don't win!
Anyway, back on topic. I support the ban on OTC sales of them to the general public because of their potential for misuse. I only ever want to see them in the hands of professionals and IF a client needs such a tool i want that owner fully trained and knowing exactly what they're doing. It's so easy to buy a collar online, have it delivered to your door and you're fit to go. That is a recipe for disaster IMO that the poor dog ends up paying the price for.
Also, i think you need to be more precise when you say "SAR people respect him heavily" Tiller, perhaps in certain countries, but that most certainly wouldn't be the case here.
While i'm at it too, i was always under the impression they was not to be used for DA issues, Guest? But you say they can be effective in this area. What kind of assessment would you do first on the DA dog to determine what kind of underlying issue is causing the behaviour? For example would the ecollar be used on a fear aggressive DA dog?"
Yep, that's me. I've been banned from several sites. Some people just can't handle the truth." LOL (Tom Cruise movie reference there). Some forums don't permit the discussion of Ecollars at all but they don't state it in their rules. On such sites it's an "unofficial−official rule." I found out by posting and then a ban resulted. On most of those forums, I regard the banning as a "badge of honor."
I'm with you on not liking it when people place more value on ribbons, trophies and certificates than on the well-being of their dogs.
As to your support for OTC sales ... An identical case can be made for virtually any tool that's used in dog training. ANY of them are subject to misuse. ANY of them are best used by a professional. Any of them should only be used after an owner has been "fully trained [and] knows exactly what they're doing." ANY of them can be purchased online and then they're "fit to go." At least with the Ecollar it's impossible for them to cause physical injury, which is easily done with many other tools.
Re your comment about SAR people respecting me and your statement "that most certainly wouldn't be the case here." I'm at a disadvantage because I don't know where you're located. I'd guess it would be the UK. Several years back I was invited there to be a judge at a SAR competition that was attended by SAR handlers and K−9's from all over the UK and Europe. I don't think that invitation would have been forthcoming, if I wasn't "respected." I was invited back for the next year's competition, but due to changes in the laws regarding bringing foreign dogs into the UK, the sponsor has not repeated the competition. BTW I did an Ecollar presentation there that was very well received. Many people learned that the Ecollar was NOT what they'd thought it was.
Of the 60 seminars that I've done 16 of them involved SAR handlers. I'm consistently invited to the annual conventions for a couple of national SAR organizations and have repeated six times at one annual conference. I'm invited back for a seventh time, next year for that one. No one is universally "respected" but I think that I have far more than my share.
I have no idea where you got the idea that Ecollars were "not to be used for DA issues." Perhaps it's from warnings from people who don't know how to use the tool properly for this issue? It might emanate from a misunderstanding of what is says on some manufacturers sites. Typical is the warning in the Dogtra manuals (Dogtra is among one of the largest manufacturer of the tool). "Dogtra does not recommend using the e-collar to correct dogs that are aggressive towards other dogs or people. In many such cases the dog will associate the stimulation with the other dog or individual and become even more aggressive. Dog aggression is best treated by a dog training specialist."
Note the part that I highlighted. Clearly what they're saying is NOT TO CORRECT an aggressive dog with an Ecollar. They're certainly not saying that an Ecollar should not be used to treat the issue. Other manufacturers make similar statements warning NOT TO CORRECT an aggressive dog.
The Ecollar can be used to treat fear−aggressive dogs, as was the case with both Roma and Simon. I really don't care what's causing the aggression, I just train the dog to look away from the other dog. A dog can't be aggressive towards something he isn't going to look at. With fear aggressive dogs, they usually discover that they don't have to fear other dogs, and they learn to relax.
Here's some video from a client who used to have a fear aggressive dog. She treated him with my protocol for this. NOTE: this is an extraordinary result. Usually the aggressive dog just stops his aggression. It's very rare that they'll frolic and play with other dogs, but it happened here. No one has ever been able to tell me with conviction which dog was the formerly aggressive one. Can anyone here do so? If you give it a try, please tell us what you base your statement on. CLICK HERE FOR THE VIDEO.
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