|Shiver Me- Timbers- "Charlie" wrote,
"Do you then deny that other methods work, or suggest that anyone using ANY other method will suddenly one day turn to ecollars just because of the way you use them and your education on them? Do you deny that positive reinforcement works for many dogs? If so, I will agree to disagree. Some of your posts suggest that you are aware dogs are individual and what might work with one dog won't necessarily work with another, but then it looks like you turn around and say that after learning of your protocol, people will turn around and start using ecollars instead."
Of course I won't deny that other methods work. That would just be stupid. How well they work is what I will argue. For those who have spent years in studying their application, they work quite well. Not so much for the APO, the average pet owner (whatever that means). A child with a treat can get a dog to sit in the kitchen. It's when distance and distractions are added that problems arise.
I've argued with people for decades now on this topic. Many times people have said that they'd never use an Ecollar on their dogs. Several of those people have later called me and changed their minds. It's just a matter of them getting the right (wrong for their methods) dog.
Shiver Me- Timbers- "Charlie" wrote, "I STILL fully disagree of their use on my Maya, and if you say that, you deny that EVERY dog is individual and certain methods will or won't work on them(INCLUDING ecollars)."
If you don't want to use an Ecollar on your dog, that's fine with me. But it's silly to tell me that it won't work because your dog is fearful and/or sensitive. I've worked with many such dogs, I doubt that your dog was as fearful or as sensitive as Roma, CLICK HERE TO READ HER STORY. and there have never been any issues of any kind with them. You are entitled to your opinion as the saying goes, but mine is different and mine is based on a couple of decades of doing what you seem to think can't be done. Yours is based on what you imagine Ecollar training to be like.
Yes every dog is an individual. And every dog that I've ever come across can be trained with the Ecollar. That adaptation to each individual comes from the adjustability of the Ecollar. That allows it to be tailored specifically to the needs of every dog that I've ever worked with and there have been thousands of them.
People who use this argument against me, somehow forget that all the while that they're saying this, they're saying that their methods, WILL work on every dog. I've never understood this blindness.
Shiver Me- Timbers- "Charlie" wrote, " You did not know Maya personally, nor did you ever meet her or know the circumstances regarding her previous training before I took her in and cannot therefore tell me that ecollars would have worked/or done better on my dog. It's the same as I WILL NOT tell you that ecollars didn't work best for the dogs you worked with, I would hope for the same respect lest you met said dog of mine."
I’m sorry but I've heard this so often that it's become just about meaningless. Years ago when I started out, my response (if you'd have come to me with a problem that others had been unable to solve) would have been, "perhaps you're right. Let's see how it goes." But now, having done it thousands of times, I know that it will work. As I've said, "I'm sure that out there, somewhere, is a dog that my methods won't work on, but I've yet to come across him."
Shiver Me- Timbers- "Charlie" wrote, "I am learning a lot though, and I do appreciate that."
Education is key. I'm glad that you're learning.
Shiver Me- Timbers- "Charlie" wrote, "I will also disagree that any one training method will be the most 'reliable'. Considering the fact that dogs are ANIMALS and always will be."
The Ecollar is the only one that allows for instant corrections when the dog is at a distance from the handler. I'm sure that we'll agree that timing is important in training a dog. If you can't correct the dog at a distance, well, you can't correct the dog at a distance.
Shiver Me- Timbers- "Charlie" wrote, " I am not a trainer and will not claim to be one, however, I have worked through several issues with several dogs and come out the other side with a happy, well-balanced dog and never touched an ecollar. Do I deny their use? Absolutely not. Will I use one? Again, no."
That's fine with me. I don't require that anyone drop what they're doing and start using Ecollars. They're far from perfect. First of all they're expensive as heck. You can buy a lot of clickers, treats and dog toys for what a quality unit, that I recommend, costs. You have to remember to keep it charged. Although these days most people remember to keep their cell phone charged and the Ecollar has a blinking light to remind you each time you turn it on or off. You have to remember to turn it on! LOL. I can't tell you how many times with my own dogs, I've gone to put them up after a training session, only to discover that I'd forgotten this little detail. The dogs had worked so well, and my levels are so low, that I'd not been able to tell that it wasn't on. If you have more than one Ecollar, you have to remember to bring the right transmitter for the right receiver unit. Yes, I've mucked that one up too. Like any electrical/mechanical device, they can fail. But they're more reliable than the average cell phone these days.
Shiver Me- Timbers- "Charlie" wrote, "But I DO appreciate you coming on here, where many people are against its use, and I do appreciate that you are willing to educate people. I will thank you for that."
You're welcome. I truly appreciate your comments and the rest of those who have welcomed me here, even if it's only for the information I've provided.
Shiver Me- Timbers- "Charlie" wrote, "I would like to know HOW one can GUARANTEE their training will work on any dog. NOW THAT would be an education!"
I've read some comments from some here about trainers giving guarantees. Around here that means that if a client isn't satisfied with their results, the client gets to come to more classes for free. I wonder, if the method didn't provide satisfactory results in the first place, getting more of the same, isn't going to do much.
Like many other Ecollar dealers, if they don't like their Ecollar, if they return it within 30 days, they get a full refund, less shipping. I offer my private clients a guarantee. If they're not satisfied with the results I give them a full refund. They've lost nothing but a few hours of training time.
So while I can't "know" that my methods will work on every dog, I'm confident enough to offer this money-back guarantee. I've never had anyone ask for a refund.
Edited by author Sun Dec 2, '12 8:42pm PST