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Off Leash Dog

This is a place to gain some understanding of dog behavior and to assist people in training their dogs and dealing with common behavior problems, regardless of the method(s) used. This can cover the spectrum from non-aversive to traditional methods of dog training. There are many ways to train a dog. Please avoid aggressive responses, and counter ideas and opinions with which you don't agree with friendly and helpful advice. Please refrain from submitting posts that promote off-topic discussions. Keep in mind that you may be receiving advice from other dog owners and lovers... not professionals. If you have a major problem, always seek the advice of a trainer or behaviorist!

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Beanster,- CD, RN, CGC

We don't - doodle!!!
 
 
Barked: Wed May 30, '12 1:47pm PST 
We were in Florida in January on a rainy, freezing cold day several years ago. We were visiting a state park, with our two toy poodles, dutifully ON LEASH.
This park had a long boardwalk out to the river where you could view manatees, however, the sign clearly stated, "No dogs allowed on boardwalk." We were standing there deciding what to do when the ranger came along and told us to go ahead and take the dogs since there were obviously NOT crowds of people, etc. He said just carry them if you do see someone.
We headed out and almost immediately ran into one of those older, "proper" tourists who immediately, in her loudest, rudest voice began screaming at us for "breaking" the law, etc., etc., as her poor embarassed husband tried to shrink into the nearby vegetation. (We WERE carrying the dogs.) We TRIED to ignore her and continue on our way but she was totally obnoxous and right in our faces.
Suddenly we heard running footsteps on the boardwalk and low and behold, there was the ranger! He told the lady to move on before he cited her for harassment, then apologized to us for her rude behavior!!! He escorted us the rest of the walk, and gave us a great guided tour as well, and at the river, he took us up into their private, locked fire tower.
Yeah, we WERE disobeying the rules, but we were in good company to do it!
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Ava

Super Friendly- Aviator
 
 
Barked: Wed May 30, '12 1:56pm PST 
(I know I'm kinda late getting back on this topic... I've been working all day) smile

"That is exactly the attitude that I find problematic. There does not need to be a posted sign to require you to leash your dog."

The thing is, almost everyone who lives around here knows that there will be off-leash dogs in the back woods trails out here. Even the cops know it and they don't care. If you live here and still choose to walk your reactive dog back there and expect NOT to run in to an off-leash dog at some point, and then get mad when you do, you have no one to blame but yourself.

And I know tone is impossible to read accurately over text, but the way the lady with the beagle said "you know there's a leash law" was in a rude high-and-mighty tone. I would not have reacted as spitefully if she had said the same thing in a neutral voice.

And I know I mentioned before but just wanted to make it more clear, if it was obviously a case of serious injury I WOULD hurry and get my dogs. In fact most of the time I DO gather mine when we pass others without ever needing to be asked (or rudely told). I wont always put them on leash for a passing dog, because a sit/stay (for Nix) or even just holding the collar (for Ava) will do, but rest assured if we ever met on a trail I would have my dogs under full control one way or another long before you and your dog get within "attack-range." I take advantage of off-leash-ability whenever I can, but I'm not stupid. Really I'm not. laugh out loud

Edited by author Wed May 30, '12 2:04pm PST

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Koorazh

You can't catch- me!
 
 
Barked: Wed May 30, '12 2:03pm PST 
People have an ethical obligation to control self/car/animal/child. Is there anyone here who disagrees with this? In this densely populated urban county, they also have a legal obligation to have a dog leashed *at all times*. There are off leash parks, but after going there for a couple of years, I now avoid them.

Notwithstanding the ethical and legal obligation, if someone is off leash in an on leash area and has his or her dog peacefully under control and away from us, I have nothing to say. I wish they wouldn't; it's not fair. They are having a nice peaceful walk, confident that we won't cause problems for them because we're visibly under control on leash. I don't get to have the same walk -- I have to keep a watchful eye on them and be prepared to handle their dog, if they can't or won't control it. They could go to an off leash area, where we won't go, but they have chosen to come walk off leash in an on leash area, leaving us no place where we can walk without care. Still, I won't say anything; I'm not the police.

However, when s/he lets his or her dog ran at us and get in our faces, *when I have to put my body between the two dogs to keep them apart*, it becomes my business and my problem to solve. The person who created the problem cannot be heard to complain about how I solve it, or what I say to them about creating a problem for me to solve. Their fault. Period.

That being said, it costs nothing to be kind whenever possible, and that is what I like to aim for. Just because.
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Morrison

Hello, I Love- You
 
 
Barked: Wed May 30, '12 2:07pm PST 
Everyone is complaining. Some of us are on one side of the law and others are on the other. All I can do is shrug and say "Well you are breaking the law" when someone who is not following leash laws gets chewed out or gets a stink eye from another person.

That is laughable as someone complaining they got a ticket for speeding.

Of course there are cops who will let pretty girls out of tickets all the time.

Kato I was not saying that you got lucky because of the cop. I was talking about the fact that you are lucky you have not come across a severely aggressive dog when yours has been off leash or when you have dropped a leash. I still would love to hear your polite reaction to a dog running at you with the intent to attack/kill.

Again you will not always be so lucky. Just because the dogs you have run across have been managable does not mean you will never run across a truely dangerous dog.
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Morrison

Hello, I Love- You
 
 
Barked: Wed May 30, '12 2:10pm PST 
"If someone is off leash in an on leash area and has his or her dog peacefully under control and away from us, I have nothing to say. I wish they wouldn't; it's not fair."

This exactly hail

And it's not that I couldn't control my dogs. I just have this crazy desire to obey the law shrug
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Kato

Birds!
 
 
Barked: Wed May 30, '12 2:10pm PST 
What? So, if people are off in the distance minding their own business with their dog off leash, it's not fair to you because you worry about it?

Do you not see how ridiculous that is to blame them? I've had plenty of children come bounding up to me and my dogs. Kato does not like that in the least. I don't go around grumbling about children off in the distance because they MIGHT run up to me. The pessimistic attitude is doing nobody, dog included, any favors.

Toto, methinks the ranger had a crush on you lol.
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Morrison

Hello, I Love- You
 
 
Barked: Wed May 30, '12 2:13pm PST 
Its not illegal to let kids run loose shrug. So you can't really complain about them running up to a (especially loose) Kato.
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Kato

Birds!
 
 
Barked: Wed May 30, '12 2:15pm PST 
What does illegal have to do with someone worrying about something improbable?

I was talking about the fact that you are lucky you have not come across a severely aggressive dog when yours has been off leash or when you have dropped a leash. I still would love to hear your polite reaction to a dog running at you with the intent to attack/kill.

Apparently you haven't read all my posts. I have been attacked by an aggressive dog. Totally came up from behind us and attacked. Not provoked in the least.

I've also had Kato be attacked by a little dog in which I dropped the leash. Dropping the leash was the best thing I could have done. In fact, the owner of that dog wasn't even outside when it happened. I was all by myself. Could have been much worse for the little dog if Kato was restrained.

As for my reaction, I have none. When the big weim attacked Kato, I kept my mouth shut and did what I could to get the attack to stop. Not really a conscious thing. It's just my reaction. I grabbed the dog's collar and pulled. When the collar slipped out of my hand, I got ready to kick the dog. Just at that time, the owner came over and got his dog. Screaming, hooping and hollering isn't my thing. Nor would it have done anything more than stir the situation up more. I get some people just react that way in the same that I react with silence. But I wouldn't go around advocating yelling.

Edited by author Wed May 30, '12 2:16pm PST

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Shiver Me- Timbers- "Charlie"

My Little Dog, a- heartbeat at my- feet.<3
 
 
Barked: Wed May 30, '12 2:19pm PST 
If a dog is clearly under their owners control and LEAVING my dog alone so I can get or keep him under threshold, that's fantastic and kudos to that person, even if they're breaking the law(that part is their problem, not mine unless that dog is harassing me and mine).

But let's be honest, this is talking about dogs that AREN'T under their owners control and do come up and harass other dogs and people.

I keep seeing people, even those with reactive dogs saying to stay calm and just keep moving or keep walking in the opposite direction, etc etc. But the problem is that I DO NOT have a problem with off leash dogs IF they're not harassing me and mine. If they are, then they have sent Charlie way over threshold already and he's already at the point of lunging, barking, growling, etc. I do my best to watch for loose dogs and even those on a leash, because I LOVE to use EVERY situation as a learning curve and training opportunity for Charlie to work down his threshold and teach him a little more control. Walking in the opposite direction calmly while another dog is off leash sending him over threshold DOES NOTHING for creating a 'friendly greeting' when he's spun around on his leash and I'm having to drag him because he's lunging in that dogs direction.

In my experience, in my city, it's rare you find someone with full control of their dog when it's off leash. Heck, if your dog is off leash ignoring mine and leaving us alone, I'll use it as an opportunity to get Charlie back under control and calmed down so we can continue our walk and he doesn't have to feel threatened by that other dog.

Differences between aggression and reactivity or not.. Yes, Charlie is reactive and isn't nearly so likely to fight with another dog, but his reactivity can get him worked up enough that if it set off another dog(which it typically does with off leash out of control dogs in my area- please note that I'm not calling anyone here's dog out of control, just those in my own area), then a fight is bound to happen.

And Sabi - I'm absolutely NOT surprised. I live right by an industrial area too and a bunch of fields right by the highway and stray dogs always end up wandering our neighborhood, nevermind the sheer amount of irresponsible owners who just don't bother training their dogs a reliable recall, if they've got them off leash. Ugh.
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Ava

Super Friendly- Aviator
 
 
Barked: Wed May 30, '12 2:29pm PST 
"Dogs off-leash around horses when the owner has no control is something I do not tolerate, at all but that's because I have seen the worst outcome and want to keep other dogs safe."

This. I feel the same way when it comes to dogs and horses. That's not that I don't trust my dogs necessarily, but I would NEVER expect a horse to NOT flip out. Even a totally awesome horse who loves dogs. I've been around too many good horses who suddenly spooked for no apparent reason to take any chances with them. wink That goes for other livestock too, but sometimes for different reason--I know it's legal for farmers to shoot any dog they feel could threaten their livestock, so I don't take chances with that either.
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