Anyone know about painting numbers on hunting dogs for trials?

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Scooter

Work hard; Play- harder.

Barked: Wed Apr 25, '12 4:50pm PST


	I use to participate in field trials for broke fox dogs (either trailing fox or coyotes) and for coon hounds. In the old days, they used peroxide or diluted liquid bleach; those that still use it are really noticeable as the numbers don't look right. I was mentored to use human grade hair bleach (for dark dogs) and human hair color (for light dogs). The numbers on the dog in Rescue Ink's pic appears to have been bleached with human grade products (since the number edges are well defined and not "runny). A freeze brand the size of the one pictured would have extensive scarring. I know of several APBT kennels who use freeze brands. Their brands are like the ones used for horses and cows and they brand either the shoulder or the hip. Their dogs then have their ADBA registration numbers inked on their inner thighs. The whole point of branding the dog is to deter thieves. I suspect the 2 vets who are claiming freeze branding have ties to either an animal rights group or are in on the hoax and to say otherwise would blow the whistle. On FB, someone claimed the dog was emaciated; the dog in the pic looks like a typical bench dog. She wasn't in the type of shape that you normally see of trial dogs; she was kinda chunky. Some bench shows require you to trial the dog. If you look closely at the pic, you can see where some of the black hair is growing back within the numbered area; that alone tells me that it was bleached. For those that want to know... trials can go on for a weekend including the bench show. If they are running 2 trials and 2 bench shows, you get one number for the weekend. The number is for the judges to id the animal. Done right (IE left on for the shortest amount of time possible) the number will fade out after about 2 weeks. I've seen dogs who have been heavily campaigned that end up having their sides bleached then either painted or recolored over. I'm not a fan of using paint since it has to be water proof/resistant as there are times the dogs will have to cross water; paint that meets that requirement is very difficult to remove. IMHO, it's less harmful to the dog to use carefully applied hair bleach/color as it won't plug the pores and then require acetone or paint thinner to remove like the paint does. I suspect that someone (or an entire group of them) who isn't a fan of field trials have decided to start the hound version of "all bulldogs have been used as bait dogs/fighting dogs". From what I'm seeing, there is no proof this "Kill the dog" game has actually taken place and the frenzy on FB is an example of how people with no clue will take something and just run with it. I suspect that since whomever is running RI's FB page is going to stick with the story, as soon as it gets debunked, they are going to want it to all go away as quickly as possible. I'm wondering if the dog was grabbed and a tracking collar removed.

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Happy

The Boy Wonder

Barked: Wed Apr 25, '12 6:24pm PST


	Speaking of thing drying up and blowing away the article appears to be down... I'm personally snickering to myself honestly. They posted that and realized that even though some rabid idiots would bite there were far more savvy dog people who weren't being fooled.

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Scooter

Work hard; Play- harder.

Barked: Wed Apr 25, '12 6:36pm PST


	Happy, they have a new article up. New hunting game put dogs and people in danger real or hoax So far, RI hasn't done anything other than keep repeating that 2 vets say it is a freeze brand, yet won't say who the vets are. Unfortunately, far too many people are still believing it.

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Sanka

The ground is my- newspaper.

Barked: Wed Apr 25, '12 6:44pm PST


	Quick question...if they shave the fur in that area, just a small bit, would the fur grow back (the first time around) it's original color if it were bleached? If shaved, wouldn't you notice scarring from the freeze drying if that were the case? And how the heck would you be able to freeze dry such a huge number on the majority of the dog's body surface? Wouldn't that be....rather time consuming and difficult? If they were "hunting" the dog, wouldn't a can of spray paint just be easier? Why the permanent mark if they're just going to kill it? That theory proposed just makes no sense.

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Scooter

Work hard; Play- harder.

Barked: Wed Apr 25, '12 7:13pm PST


	Yep, Sanka, if they shaved a small portion of the bleached area, it would grow back in the original color, in this case, the dog had a black blanket. If you look closely at the pics I've linked to, you can easily see that the dog was bleached... most likely with human hair product since there is no running/drip marks. Also, if you look closely, you can see where the hair is growing out. First pic RI posted Second pic RI posted latest pic RI posted The latest on the RI FB page is that they are still investigating. They go on to insinuate that marking the dog in any way is abuse and hunters and trialers should rely on microchips. My take is that they are out of touch and only posted the third picture to keep fanning the flames.

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Augusta,- CGC, RN

Such a Good Dog!

Barked: Wed Apr 25, '12 8:01pm PST


	Thanks Scooter! That was very thorough and pretty much fills in all the blanks! I appreciate Tiller's perspective too from a rescue point of view . . . . The more pics you see and how the numbers follow the contours of the dog's body, up her back---anybody who knew the least about branding would know such a "branding" with any kind of branding iron wasn't possible . . . it really contradicts their "evidence" for people with the least bit of knowledge, B.S. detector, and ability or willingness to google rather than "rage" as one commenter so aptly put it . . . One commenter was a hair dresser and said, ya know it takes a certain amount of time for hair product to bleach out an area . .. . . you'd expect the "alleged sickos" wouldn't choose a time intensive method . . . real freeze branding takes even longer for legible results . . . . And, you're right, Scooter, the numbers were so neatly done, as in probably with a stencil--I'd even go so far as to say, with great care and pride in showing their dog . . .. not the work of someone out for a "joy killing" as it were . . . The cynic in me says Rescue Ink is loving the drama and the hits--truth be damned . . .. Strangely enough I ran across another FB page for a rescuer, now on his or her own, alleged to be a founding member of a certain organization who fell into conflict because some members were interested only in how to be "top" in the market, wanting to allegedly go "for profit" instead of the "not for profit" they started as . . . Furthermore some concerned commenter suggested people watermark their web pics, lest certain (can't reveal any names at this point) disingenuous organizations use a pic of an animal grabbed from the net and make up their own allegations about it for certain alleged nefarious purposes, one of which you might think could be financial gain, but I can't, of course, confirm any such thing because of the possible hush hush investigation that may or may not be underway . . . . people on the ground and so forth . . .

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Scooter

Work hard; Play- harder.

Barked: Wed Apr 25, '12 11:18pm PST


	Articles like this one certainly don't help their image. It's dog ear dog for animal rescue dollars Nor did a certain Newsday article from 2009. I can't express my feelings on the first story; it would most certainly earn me a bath.

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Augusta,- CGC, RN

Such a Good Dog!

Barked: Wed Apr 25, '12 11:33pm PST


	Wow, Scooter! Yikes!

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Titus

Cave canis- vigilo omnis

Barked: Thu Apr 26, '12 8:27am PST


	Yeesh. That's really disappointing, Scooter. I'm aware of the "competition" in rescue, but what I've seen has been more... subtle, I guess.

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Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty

Barked: Thu Apr 26, '12 10:50am PST


	If only it were true. Try this one on for lack of subtlety..... We once went to meet a rescue-only transport. There was another rescue there and they were holding the slip lead attached to a Dachshund they had pulled, who was very scared, and they were griping and feeling sorry for themselves as she was obviously going to be harder to place than they thought. It was a pretty objectionable scene, but it got worse when they tried to steal the Dachshund we had pulled who was still on the van. While all that calamity was going on, Duncan had to confront them trying to scoot with our pulled dog! Second time that happened....we had a GSD brought up, and on the stop earlier the transporter was getting a lot of pressure from another rescuer about releasing the dog to them instead. Of course, it's not always that way. There's a lovely, BIG rescue here....I'll even say their name for press - PAWS New England. They are actually one of those rescues that takes on the impossible medical cases, hard to adopts, etc. They are transport based, but always lend a hand to local issues, local dogs. When we were starting up Southpaws, their director is the one who coached me on the basics. They've invited us to attend their adoption events when we've had trouble moving a dog. Do courtesy postings when they can. Try to help those trying to rehome their own dogs. Even just recently put up dogs we are trying to place on their own Facebook, where their own dogs are promoted. They are very much about "rescue is good" and the community helping within itself is helping the dogs....which is sort of the point. Or so I thought! I think with rescue, IMO, it comes down to if you can't take the heat, then get out of the kitchen. Rescue is HARD. If to stay afloat what you need to do is foul others or participate in dubious maneuvers, harm the rescue community for the sake of your own....something is totally screwy there, and rescue would be better with you gone. It is not about YOU, it is not even about the dogs you yourself are saving, but the sum total of the equation. You are part of a community, and you need to act like it. This recent hound nonsense is a great case in point, for it's not like you need to look hard to find a really sad case to help. It's not like there aren't actual abuse cases, sad cases, to bring some of the humane issues to the forefront. When you don't keep it real, you get stuff like this, which I think leaves a bad taste in the mouths of so many. Histrionic rescuers, hoaxes to prey on the sympathy of others, etc. And it sets everything back. sigh

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