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This is a place to gain some understanding of dog behavior and to assist people in training their dogs and dealing with common behavior problems, regardless of the method(s) used. This can cover the spectrum from non-aversive to traditional methods of dog training. There are many ways to train a dog. Please avoid aggressive responses, and counter ideas and opinions with which you don't agree with friendly and helpful advice. Please refrain from submitting posts that promote off-topic discussions. Keep in mind that you may be receiving advice from other dog owners and lovers... not professionals. If you have a major problem, always seek the advice of a trainer or behaviorist!
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Chandler
Code name:- Farmcollie |
 | | Barked: Tue Nov 10, '09 3:38pm PST | |  | |  | | Sunshine,
Actually, I think a large part of the problem is that many people do not know exactly what a puppymill is, and also do not know that pet stores do not get their pups from reputable/hobby breeders. Sure, a lot of people on Dogster know about puppy mills, but heck, people had to spend $10,000 to buy a BILLBOARD to let Oprah know they exist, and what they do. She had no idea about the problem until that happened. How many people out there in the general public are like her? Pet stores instruct their employees to lie, knowing or unknowing. Somebody in one of my classes last year got a little designer mix from a store in my state, I know the store, I know where they get their pups. Her comment was "but she came from a breeder in PA- they told me so."
I'd like to suggest the following blog entry for an analysis of the types of pet store consumers, and why they purchase pups from pet shops, many of these reasons also apply to people who buy from slick online puppymill websites:
At least, don't buy this. |  |  | |  |
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Bear,- Princess,- Coco, &- Sheba
Questdriven:- cookiemiller.tri- pod.com
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| | Barked: Tue Nov 10, '09 5:43pm PST | | | | | | "So, what you are REALLY espousing is that dogs go the way of cattle and hogs, for our own good, only a few select few with lots of $$$ will be allowed to breed dogs, and of course it will end up with the same "confined" operations that are going on with chickens and hogs now. That'll really do it, put everybody but the puppymills and a few wealthy show folks out of business."
No, that's not it at all.
I don't believe that only best-in-show dogs should be bred. What do I do believe in is breeding for health, number one priority. Next in line is working ability so that you have a sound dog that can work and work well. Next conformation, and I only believe in breeding according to standard because it helps to keep the breed consistent. Unless of course the standard calls for traits that can harm the dog. (Temperament is included in the standard.) A dog that can meet all of that criteria fits my definition of breeding quality, basically.
I am fully convinced that the very best way to stop the overpopulation crisis is education--encouraging shelter adoption and getting the word out on what to look for in a breeder for those who choose to buy from breeders. As well as to practice what we preach in that regard. That's something we all can do.
I also don't think it's wrong to breed if you're breeding for health--I'm studying to be a breeder to try to keep the breed I love (Collies) healthy. (And I'm far from rich.) I also fully support shelter adoption. I just feel that it's important to support both shelters/rescues and reputable breeders. If we all quit breeding until the overpopulation crisis was past, the dogs that are truly breeding quality may grow too old to be bred by that time. Plus, realistically, not everyone is going to quit breeding just because everyone else says they should. Even if you could manage to convince all of the responsible people to quit breeding, you'd still have the irresponsible people breeding.
"It is MY opinion that there IS room for breeders that breed less than PERFECT breed standards because people want pets that have most of the the characteristics of the breed but cannot afford to buy the show dog class of pup."
Well, for starters no dog meets perfection. And I agree to a point--you don't need to breed only the very best there is. Within breeding quality, you have some dogs that are better than others, whether the dog's strength be in conformation or clear hips or greater working drive. I think that as long as the dog is breeding quality (my definition in the first paragraph), he could be bred and his owners would still be called responsible by me.
Next, even in litters from the very best dogs, you're going to end up with several dogs are not breeding quality. So finding a dog that isn't show quality isn't hard at all.
"I do not like to see any breed overbred to the point of crowding shelters and loss of health in the breed, but the ONLY way to stop THAT is to shut down major puppymills and their distribution networks and the phoney registration "mills" that have proliferated."
Well, I wouldn't say it's the only way, but I agree with you on the rest.
"Anyway I sure hope everyone comes to realize that the REAL problem is the 25 to 600 places (I hear there is one about 100 miles south of me, LICENSED that has over 600 ADULT dogs), as I said a "confined animal operation". THOSE folks aren't going out of business and as competitors with good healthy well cared for "backyard" pups are eliminated, those gigantic puppymills will contiue to grow LARGER."
I can only speak for myself, but I already realized that. I've been doing much research, participated in many debates on this subject. While I have little in the experience department right now, I have learned at the very least that much.
Now, I don't agree that BYBs should not be "shut down", for lack of better words. I do my best to encourage people not to breed without knowing what they are doing and I do my best to get the word out on responsible breeding. But I do agree that puppy mills are an even bigger problem and that we all must do our part to get them shut down.
"Oh, and that 600 puppymill, they have Champions, they BUY them, but they HAVE them, and who KNOWS how many pups a Champion stud dog can sire?"
I realize this. We refer to those as "show mills" here.Edited by author Tue Nov 10, '09 6:03pm PST
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