Forums Home >

Behavior & Training

GO!
This is a place to gain some understanding of dog behavior and to assist people in training their dogs and dealing with common behavior problems, regardless of the method(s) used. This can cover the spectrum from non-aversive to traditional methods of dog training. There are many ways to train a dog. Please avoid aggressive responses, and counter ideas and opinions with which you don't agree with friendly and helpful advice. Please refrain from submitting posts that promote off-topic discussions. Keep in mind that you may be receiving advice from other dog owners and lovers... not professionals. If you have a major problem, always seek the advice of a trainer or behaviorist!


Interesting Article

   
(Page 4 of 17: Viewing entries 31 to 40)  
1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  
Taz - cgc tdi

869092		 
 
Barked: Wed Jul 1, '09 4:39am PST 
I keep hearing people say they didn't or don't dominate their children. Just like when a wolf mom picks up her pup to put her back in her den, we pick up our babies and put them in their crib, both are acts of domination. When a wolf walks away or nips a pup for being to rough, we give our child a time out for pulling hair, both are acts of domination.People might not like the word and thus refuse to except they do it themselves, but really that's their own psychological problem, doesn't change the fact that the act of controlling their children in the end means their trying to dominate their children. It's really not the evil word people are trying to make it out to be and to think your going to change a persons training philosophies by trying to get rid of one word is kind ridiculous at best. Like I said before, IMO I believe we should concentrate on educating people that their are better methods out their.
my posts | my page | msg me | my family's posts | gift me | become pals
 [notify]
Bunny

Black dogs rock!		 
 
Barked: Wed Jul 1, '09 5:09am PST 
Taz, I think the problem is in the defination. Different people define dominate differently. I was thinking about this after I posted. The dictionary defination is ' to exert control or mastery' I think with CM people who alpah roll ect are exerting physical control or mastery. We can exert control without resorting to physical control with our dogs or our children. I think technically, anyone who trains their dog is exerting control, which you could define by the dictionary as dominance.

The problem with physical dominance be it dogs or children, it can escalate into abuse.

Edited by author Wed Jul 1, '09 5:11am PST

my posts | my page | msg me | my family's posts | gift me | become pals
 [notify]
ARCHX Asher,- RL1X, RL2X,- RL3

Learning is- changing what we- do
 
 
Barked: Wed Jul 1, '09 5:16am PST 
No, those are acts of leadership, not social domination of the type used in pack theory.

And I ceratinly hope parents are not dominating children, because the purpose of dominance is to control access to resources (for oneself), primarily reproductive resources. Consider even food. Dominant creatures, in a time of need, would reserve resources like food for themselves. A mother or father, at least a good mother and father of the type I had and am, would starve themselves before witholding food from their children. And I know that in some families things may be different, but I never struggled with my daughter for access to a mate.
my posts | my page | msg me | my family's posts | gift me | become pals
 [notify]

Taz - cgc tdi

869092		 
 
Barked: Wed Jul 1, '09 5:26am PST 
No it's not, the leader in of it self is the dominate one. The mother who starves herself for her child still controls the food, she just made the choice to give her child the food. A man who punches another man doesn't mean he's the dominate one if the other guy punches harder and knocks him out. Mental or physical are irrelevant, he or she who controls the other is the dominate one. Whether it's in a pack or family or whatever.
my posts | my page | msg me | my family's posts | gift me | become pals
 [notify]
ARCHX Asher,- RL1X, RL2X,- RL3

Learning is- changing what we- do
 
 
Barked: Wed Jul 1, '09 5:39am PST 
Actually, that is the difference between leadership and dominance.

Resources flow through a leader, distributed. Resources are controlled by and often reserved for an alpha.

A parent serves food to their children, an alpha eats first to get his fill. A parent may approve or disapprove a childs mate, and alpha reserves all the mating for himself.

Again, a look at the elephant seal shows alpha behavior. They fight and the winner gets all the breeding rites. Ultimately, social dominance if a way of claiming the right of passing on genes.

And if you look at some of the silly things we do to prove we are dominant, it all leads back to social dominance, not leadership. Eat first, reserve the best resting spots for ourselves, lead the pack (and Mech has proven that one way off base).

To date, there are no studies that support social dominance in dogs. Given the relevance of this topic to dog training, if it does exist, surely by this time there would be some hard evidence (other than anecdotal) supporting it.
my posts | my page | msg me | my family's posts | gift me | become pals
 [notify]
Taz - cgc tdi

869092		 
 
Barked: Wed Jul 1, '09 5:46am PST 
Your really not going to change my mind because I don't agree and I'm sure their are more out their like me. Imo if people really want to change peoples training methods, they should concentrate on simple explanations like would you rather cause pain to get the same effect as a method that doesn't cause pain. Trying to change the definition of a word isn't going to change the way people do things but showing them their is a better human way to achieve the same or better results probably would.
my posts | my page | msg me | my family's posts | gift me | become pals
 [notify]
Bunny

Black dogs rock!		 
 
Barked: Wed Jul 1, '09 5:57am PST 
As I feel like I am watching a ping pong ball reading the posts between the 2 of you and getting more confused by the minutelaugh out loud can I ask I question which is sort of relavent but not exactly? Who were the trainers in the 70's who recommanded treats/praise , molding and luring?
my posts | my page | msg me | my family's posts | gift me | become pals
 [notify]
Taz - cgc tdi

869092		 
 
Barked: Wed Jul 1, '09 6:05am PST 
I'm sure someone well versed in history could tell you, but I couldn't. I can tell you classical conditioning has been around for century. Look up
Ivan Pavlov to learn more.
my posts | my page | msg me | my family's posts | gift me | become pals
 [notify]
Kaya

All you need is- love :)
 
 
Barked: Wed Jul 1, '09 6:15am PST 
"So what word would be an appropriate one? How to tell the 'masses' that are being referred to that dominance does not equate overpowering? Nobody I know that trains in the 'traditional' spectrum would consider alpha rolling a dog - WAY too dangerous for the types of dogs being worked with - and equally ineffective."

Cain - I am not saying anything YOU do as a trainer is cruel, or that your style and philosophy is. I take issue with the larger number of people who never take a dog to training, but have exposure to these pop culture theories of dominance (not what it is supposed to mean) and take matters in to their own hands, enforce these over the top methods for mild "disobedience" (which really is just lack of the dog understanding most of the time) and turn it into aggressive behavior responses. Thus ending up in shelters with behavior issues like the articles are suggesting. I fully imagine when you issue s leash pop (if you do), you are not doing so aggressively. I often witness non-professional types (which outnumber the other) doing so with much aggressiveness (what they consider dominant) intent.

ETA: What word would I use instead? While it should mean the same thing, by your definitions of dominance, I would use leadership instead, because it conjures up a different image in most peoples minds than dominance does.

Edited by author Wed Jul 1, '09 6:21am PST

my posts | my page | msg me | my family's posts | gift me | become pals
 [notify]
Taz - cgc tdi

869092		 
 
Barked: Wed Jul 1, '09 6:40am PST 
I teach the obedience classes up to 12 people per class, or my version of the masses, the word I use is safety. It's safer to lure a dog to rollover then it is to try to attempt a Alpha roll. I'm not their to try to change definitions, I'm their because of my love of dogs and to provide people with a safe yet effective way to develop that bond with their dog and to teach them how to teach their dogs basic obedience and manners.
my posts | my page | msg me | my family's posts | gift me | become pals
 [notify]
  (Page 4 of 17: Viewing entries 31 to 40)  
1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17