 |
This is a place to gain some understanding of dog behavior and to assist people in training their dogs and dealing with common behavior problems, regardless of the method(s) used. This can cover the spectrum from non-aversive to traditional methods of dog training. There are many ways to train a dog. Please avoid aggressive responses, and counter ideas and opinions with which you don't agree with friendly and helpful advice. Please refrain from submitting posts that promote off-topic discussions. Keep in mind that you may be receiving advice from other dog owners and lovers... not professionals. If you have a major problem, always seek the advice of a trainer or behaviorist!
|   |
 |
 |
 |
 |
Laila
Once u love a- dog u are never- the same |
 | | Barked: Sat Jul 4, '09 4:50am PST | |  | |  | | "As a male of the human species I can say that I am living truth that reward based training does work."
Truthfully I haven't followed the thread but I have to say, Cody, good on you for speaking in this way, as a male. We need more like you! It would be ridiculous to assume that reward based training wouldn't work as well for males (because of their testosterone), so if anyone did say that, again, thanks for speaking as a male.
 |  |  | |  |
| | my posts | my page | msg me | my family's posts | gift me | become pals | [notify] |
|
|
 |
 |
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M
Too Much Is- Never- Enough...I'm A- Giant! |
| | Barked: Sat Jul 4, '09 8:21am PST | | | | | | Regarding the "pop culture" thing that keeps on coming up in this thread, I hope it is in some manner interesting to note that this is a natural cycle.
Uttered in 1962 -
""Magazines have diginified the prattle of "dog psychologists" who would rob the dog of a birthright he has in common with all creatures: the right to consequences of his own actions"
That a half century ago and before the R /P- movement by William Koehler, who was directed at coming up with an reliable, readily absorbed (i.e., quickly understandable) and effective way to train a dog. Plenty of inept people labeled themselves as giving Koehler classes, misapplied the princples, dogs got strung up, and bad speak on Koehler settled in. And then it was the Monks....living a "natural life" with a dog that was reliable, readily absorbed and absolute in its intention towards a well behaved animal. Until the alpha roll frenzy went in to overdrive, so much so that even the Monks revised some of their positions. And now we have Cesar.
Pop culture? No, not really. There always has been that struggle that some people....no matter how many people here would like to believe otherwise....just want something that does not require tremendous brain thought, can be readily applied and lead to a reliable dog. They do not want to invest themselves, delve too deeply into science theories, etc. They just want their dog to behave so that they can like him.
You cannot superimpose yourself on the collective and think it can work in a sweeping way. Someone here typecast the shelter dog as he ruined by training, but that is inaccurate. Not to say that does not occur, but the stereotypical shelter dog had minimal work and an impatient owner, or not even that but was a yard dog, roamer and whatever else it might be. Hence, any training that works, said from a wider perspective, is good training. If it is effective, it keeps dogs out of shelters, of getting passed from one person to the next, or ending up abrading its community and giving dogs a bad reputation.
It really depends on your perspective. And this is one of the perspectives I have. Duncan as well. There is lots CM does that may concern, but at the same time he motivates people TO train, many people who follow him are very pleased with their dogs, and he definitely has made people feel less threatened by certain challenges a shelter dog can have.
As well, while it is so that R approaches do not prone a dog nearly as much, EVERY training has its fallouts from people who misapply or miscomprehend it. That is inevitable and is important to keep in perspective, too. I know plenty of people who are misapplying the principles and claim to have a "reactive" dog who is, in fact, out of control and an unhinged brat. "Working out their dogs issues" by bringing them around other dogs and their unsuspecting owners. You see that on Dogster from time to time....shock that their dog did that "again." AGAIN?
Now before anyone gets their shoelaces in a knot over that, pull back for a second and think. I know PLENTY of people overhandle their dogs. But plenty also do not. And while, yes, much less harm is offered by more positive approaches, when misapplied the dogs are no less prone. Only in a different manner. The POINT of training is to have a well mannered, or at least well in control, dog. Now sometimes, that "control" means not of the dog but of the situations you allow him in based on your knowledge of what he can and cannot handle. Control is not a four letter word...an owner who feels they have control is content and a dog who is under control is safe....safe from shelter dumping, safe in his community as well. And those are two primary safeties in dog welfare.
So I honestly feel this is not a black-and-white issue. A lot of people talk of CM as some new tick on the flesh of training wonder, but really this ALWAYS is in play. Some people just want something they can grasp and something that works. Period. Some people don't want to GO to training class. Koehler knew that. He was a grand pappy of the obedience movement and what he WANTED was for you and your dog to go to school, but he also wrote out his text should you be less inclined. His conviction was that dogs get trained. No matter how that occurs may offend some, but when you are deep in the trenches of yet another marvelous dog being led to the back to have his life ended for no damned reason of substance.....it starts to matter quite a bit less.Edited by author Sat Jul 4, '09 8:28am PST
| | | | |
| | my posts | my page | msg me | my family's posts | gift me | become pals | [notify] |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sabre
All the sticks- belong to me... |
| | Barked: Sat Jul 4, '09 8:51am PST | | | | | | Thank you for posting the link to this article. I'm dealing with the fallout of an incident stemming from this issue and the article just reassured me in my belief and in what my trainer told me as to how to deal with my dog who is a little fearful. | | | | |
| | my posts | my page | msg me | gift me | become pals | [notify] |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Cain
"Strength and- Honor"
 |
| | Barked: Sat Jul 4, '09 9:11am PST | | | | | | " It would be ridiculous to assume that reward based training wouldn't work as well for males (because of their testosterone), "
Laila, apparently you missed the fact that all of that about males and testosterone was a joke.  | | | | |
| | my posts | my page | msg me | my family's posts | gift me | become pals | [notify] |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
My Account
They've got that going for them 
