GO!

It's not Click/Treat, it's Click THEN treat. Mechanical skills for clicker trainers.

This is a place to gain some understanding of dog behavior and to assist people in training their dogs and dealing with common behavior problems, regardless of the method(s) used. This can cover the spectrum from non-aversive to traditional methods of dog training. There are many ways to train a dog. Please avoid aggressive responses, and counter ideas and opinions with which you don't agree with friendly and helpful advice. Please refrain from submitting posts that promote off-topic discussions. Keep in mind that you may be receiving advice from other dog owners and lovers... not professionals. If you have a major problem, always seek the advice of a trainer or behaviorist!

  
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Mocha Bear- (Mokie),- VGG, KPA,

CEO of Rewarding- Behaviors Dog- Training
 
 
Barked: Fri Oct 10, '08 7:54am PST 
For those of you who train using a clicker, a little advice.

It seems that on the first night of class, the students always struggle the most with coordination. Hopefully, what I've learned from them (and what we need to work on the most with "green" handlers) will help those of you who are just starting out in clicker training (and maybe even some established clicker trainers!).

There are a few fundamental mechanical skills required for successful clicker training, so I figured a review of them may benefit those individuals who choose to use this training method.

IMO, there are three fundamental skills, one for each segment of the ABC contingency (also known as the "Three Term Contingency") upon which clicker training operates (antecedent: behavior: consequence). The contingency assumes behavior is controlled by its consequences.

The first step in the contingency is the antecedent, or "what precedes the behavior". Initially, this may be a very subtle movement of the body (an example of this to come later). The most important handler skill at this stage is observation. Clicker training conditions dog owners to be much more aware of their dogs' body language.

For instance, in KPA, one of our assignments was to capture a tongue flick and put it on cue. Some of the students had such a hard time they had to spend over 60 three minute sessions just to get the behavior on cue!

The tongue flick often only lasts a fraction of a second, initially. I was having a hard time marking the behavior accurately. UNTIL I beefed up my observation skills. I noticed that Mokie's lips would tense and draw back just the teeniest bit before the tongue flick, so I began to predict the behavior.

This leads into the second stage of the contingency; behavior, and the mechanical skill that ties in with it, marking the behavior.

Remember, the clicker (I'm just using this as an example because this is what I use, substitute your own marker if you use a different one) is a bridging stimulus. Therefore, it bridges the time between the behavior and the consequence (punisher/reinforcer).

Steve (my trainer/mentor) always told me to think of the clicker as a camera...the timing of the clicker is such that "you are taking a picture" of the exact moment in time the learning subject offers the desired behavior.

There are a number of things one can do to improve their timing. For timing practice, I suggest using a different marker. You don't want your dog to come running hopeful for a training session if you are just practicing your timing. When I practice my timing, I often blink my eyes.

How to practice timing? I practice by watching t.v. and blink when the camera angles change. Or select a particular word, and blink whenever it is said on a t.v. show. I've sat down at the park before and blinked as a car's headlights passed a nearby stop light.

Or, you can practice online by playing around with the reflex tester available on this site. A while back I posted this in B & T and we had a lot of fun comparing our timing. OT but interesting, we noticed that there was a vast difference in relfex responses based upon the color selected. Give it a whirl and post your time/color here!

Some people make it sound like having good clicker timing is impossible for the average individual. If you can take a picture, you can clicker train a dog.

For a bridging stimuli to be effective, it has to be a predictor of the delivery of the reinforcer (or punisher, depending on the trainer and circumstance).

One of the biggest problem I see with "green" clicker trainers is that they click and treat at the same time, or are fumbling with the treat bag as they are clicking. This is sloppy training, and needs to be cleaned up.

This is where we get to the third section of the contingency, consequence.

What I don't like about "Treating while you're clicking": it devalues the marker signal while undermining it's purpose. The marker is only useful if there is a time gap to bridge between the behavior and reinforcement. If you can reinforce as the behavior is occurring, there is nothing to bridge. The click and the reinforcement should be two separate events.

Ideally, the consequence (reinforcement) should be delivered less than two seconds after the behavior (marker/bridge). There are certain exceptions, but this is for another conversation.

We always start class with an exercise called "start your dog." We set a timer for thirty seconds. In this time, the handler is to click THEN treat their dogs as many times as possible. We emphasize having the handler return their hand to a neutral position while they are clicking. People always ask, "doesn't my dog have to do anything to earn these treats?" and the answer is no. This exercise is purely for the benefit of the human students, while serving the added benefit of letting the dogs know it is time to work.

I like to click with my right hand and reinforce with my left, generally. So my left hand is totally still and not in or near my treat bag as I click. If you are digging around in your treat bag while you are clicking, it takes the dog's focus off the click and puts it on the food, which is not what we want. Doing so makes it harder to ween off food reinforcers and teaches a dog not to work unless food is in sight. An appropriately trained clicker dog will stare at the clicker, not the food.

The click is a paycheck for the dog. Much like a person works for a paycheck and not directly for the services it would buy, the dog works for the click and not the reinforcers the food represents. If you're doing it right, that is.

During the "start your dog" exercise, the students are asked to count how many click/reinforcer pairs they deliver. Usually, we aim for a minimum of fifteen, as maintains the desirable two second window. The record is held at twenty four, I believe, by a lady and her miniature dachshund.

Hopefully, this will help clicker trainers in this forum improve their mechanical skills as trainers. You may notice your speed at text messaging or skill at photography increases directly with your practice on your clicker timing, LOL.

Another common mistake is clicking too close to your dog's ear. I find that in many cases of dogs that are "frightened" of the clicker sound, this is the source for that fear. An iClick is much softer sounding than a traditional box clicker or a Triple Crown (the TC is my favorite, incidentally). Take any clicker and click it right next to your ears, see how you like it! Imagine how much more startling in an animal that hears much better than we.

OTHER WAYS TO PRACTICE TIMING:

Ball game: you can do this by yourself, or with a helper. Drop a bouncy ball on the floor and click each time it bounces. As it loses the upward momentum you'll notice the bounces are much smaller but also a lot faster. You can also click when the ball reaches it's zenith in the arc from the ground up.

Cup and Beans: You can use dried beans and any cup for this exercise. Initially, you can have someone else click and you deliver the treat to the cup. Later, you will be clicking, then "treating" through delivering to the cup. Keep track of your time and CTs as mentioned above in the "start your dogs" exercise.

Often, the slowest part of the reinforcement process is reaching in your treat bag. Practice filling your hand with treats and cycling treats through your hand, one at a time, delivered to the cup or your dog.

Drop the Keys: Put your clicker on a table, and your keys next to it on the table. Pick up the keys, drop them, and try to grab your clicker and click before the keys hit the ground!

Colorful Cups: You will need a helper for this! Select three different cups of different colors (bowls will work equally well). Lay them on a table in a row. Have your clicker ready in hand, your treat bag, hand or pocket well stocked with dried beans or other markers, and have your volunteer call out a color. Quickly click, turn, and deposit a marker into the appropriate colored bowl. Have your helper start out slowly, and then increase the speed in which the colors are called.

Learn a new physical skill: whether you're dancing, ice skating, or playing tennis, good timing is involved in all of these physical activities. The better your general coordination, the better your clicker skills will be.

Take up photography! Photography, as mentioned above, is all about timing. As an added bonus, it's fun!

Video games: Video games are built around good timing, particularly using your hands. I enjoy a good video game now and then, and am impressed with how precise your timing needs to be! For those of you with teenage children who are video game fanatics, get a clicker in their hands!

Watching sports: Like baseball? Click when the ball hits a player's glove, or when the bat connects with the ball. Football? Click on the catch. Basketball? Click as the ball swishes through the hoop.

Do it! The final, and best way to practice, is through clicker training your dog, horse, cat, fish, hamster, spouse, etc.

Edited by moderator Fri Mar 23, '12 9:12am PST

Edited by forums moderator
H&E A- Pair-A-Dox

Double- Trouble/Double- Love
 
 
Barked: Fri Oct 10, '08 8:03am PST 
Mokie wavewavewavehug and one for your brother hug

Mom has a clicker and a book. Is it to much to think she can do this with stubborn hard headed doxies without attending a class? Can she do this with two at once....we are hard to separate. Your post was very informative...and mom really wants to try this for our barking. We dont stop when she says...red facered facered facered facered facered face
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Mocha Bear- (Mokie),- VGG, KPA,

CEO of Rewarding- Behaviors Dog- Training
 
 
Barked: Fri Oct 10, '08 8:07am PST 
Hi Helga and Ellie! Nice to see two of my favorite doxies!

When I'm training Mokie and Monte together, I have a different marker for each of them. I will either use the Clicker (which is a clicker that has four different sounds, each at two different sound levels for a total of 8 sounds) or, more often, verbal markers.

When I am not holding on to leashes, I can use the Clicker . If I have leashes in my hands, I prefer verbal markers.

Monte's verbal marker is a smooching sound, and Mokie's is a verbal "tock." Those who clicker train horses often use a verbal "tock" marker the same way, as it is difficult to manipulate a clicker with a hand full of reins.

wink

So what I would do is select a different marker for each of the dogs. You "charge" them the same way you charge the clicker.

To "charge" the marker, you just mark and then reinforce. Over and over. Usually it takes less than a minute or two to charge the marker. You'll know the marker is "charged" when your dog whips her head around to look at you for a treat upon hearing the sound.

What book did you pick up? You can always pmail me if you need any help. After all the support you gave me when Monte boy got his tumor removed, I would be honored to return the favor!

ETA: Doxies are notorious barkers. My friend Tiller has quite a bit of experience with the breed, hopefully his She will drop by with some advice. (I can also email you a really good article on barking, if you'd like)

Edited by author Fri Oct 10, '08 8:14am PST

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Mocha Bear- (Mokie),- VGG, KPA,

CEO of Rewarding- Behaviors Dog- Training
 
 
Barked: Fri Oct 10, '08 8:52am PST 
Drats, I forgot editing removes the "plus sign."

In that post, I was speaking of the ClickerPlus.
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Charley

The pain passes,- but the beauty- remains.
 
 
Barked: Fri Oct 10, '08 9:07am PST 
Moki, thanks for the great post. I can't believe I got all that great advice for free wink I have a Clicker, but I am still a little unsure of myself. So I printed out your list and I am going to incorporate it into my training. way to go
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Mocha Bear- (Mokie),- VGG, KPA,

CEO of Rewarding- Behaviors Dog- Training
 
 
Barked: Fri Oct 10, '08 9:11am PST 
Charley,

Let me know how it works and please pmail if you have any questions or run into any difficulty!
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Nick, CGC, WETX

I like wet, fowl- smelling things
 
 
Barked: Fri Oct 10, '08 9:11am PST 
Holy crap, Mokie! I don't even use a clicker and I find the OP excellent and helpful!!!

Great post, great information, and FREE!

Everytime I am getting disgusted with the B&T Forum, a little gem like this gets lobbed in and reminds me what this forum can be. way to go


ETA: Just read Charley's post....HAHAHAH, it's the free thing - not that we're cheapskates or anythinglaugh out loud

Edited by author Fri Oct 10, '08 9:12am PST

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Mocha Bear- (Mokie),- VGG, KPA,

CEO of Rewarding- Behaviors Dog- Training
 
 
Barked: Fri Oct 10, '08 9:18am PST 
Hey Nick!

Actually, I've been thinking a lot lately about how negative it's gotten in B & T and how I can avoid being bogged down by that bad mojo.

I figured the best way to not let it get you down is to not engage in it. I liked B & T best when it was about sharing experience and tips and information instead of throwing jabs, so that's what I'll participate in.

So I'm going to try really hard to stick to being informative and helpful, instead of spiteful and hurtful. Not that I won't continue to love a good debate of methods, but when it comes to personal attacks, I just don't need to rack up that bad karma.

Edited by author Fri Oct 10, '08 9:19am PST

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Charley

The pain passes,- but the beauty- remains.
 
 
Barked: Fri Oct 10, '08 9:33am PST 
Thanks Mokie that is very nice of you. I might just take you up on that big grin
Nick, did you mean Frugal ???
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Pippin CGC

King- Dingleberry!
 
 
Barked: Fri Oct 10, '08 9:48am PST 
Ty for taking the time to share that Mocha!!!...I do not clicker train but have considered trying it...My timing is pretty good but I've worried that adding a clicker to the mix might be more than I can pull off!laugh out loud
I will bookmark this thread because it will come in handy should I decide to try it.way to gohug
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