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Sit Means Sit training: has anyone tried this?

This is a place to gain some understanding of dog behavior and to assist people in training their dogs and dealing with common behavior problems, regardless of the method(s) used. This can cover the spectrum from non-aversive to traditional methods of dog training. There are many ways to train a dog. Please avoid aggressive responses, and counter ideas and opinions with which you don't agree with friendly and helpful advice. Please refrain from submitting posts that promote off-topic discussions. Keep in mind that you may be receiving advice from other dog owners and lovers... not professionals. If you have a major problem, always seek the advice of a trainer or behaviorist!

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Monster

589398
 
 
Barked: Sun Jul 29, '07 4:36pm PST 
I was thinking about taking my shih tzu to the petsmart puppy classes but seeing all those negative reviews in the other post made me rethink everything...

has anyone heard of Sit Means Sit dog training? I was wondering if it was any good and if it was expensive. Let me know if your dog has taken classes with them! Thanks!

Here's a link to their website: http://www.sitmeanssit.com/
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Penny- CL3,TBAD,- TG-2

~No- Longer Fat- Bottom'd- Girrrl!~
 
 
Barked: Sun Jul 29, '07 4:52pm PST 
I looked at the site briefly. I personally don't agree with remote collars for training small dogs (prob big dogs too). A friend had it reccommended to him for a dachshund mix (small) and it backfired. Poor thing ended up terrified.

I have taken all 6 of my dogs to a local (non petsmart) training school that focuses on reward based training, then phases the reward out over time, replacing it with verbal praise.. they use the clicker method. I have found it to be highly effective for both my older medium sized strong willed mix breed (Chow-Sharpei mix) and for my puppy to 2 yr old miniature dachshunds (a notoriously difficult breed to train). The school we go to uses Karen Pryors methods http://www.clickertraining.com/ All of the dogs in the house have taken or are working on Level 1 and 2 obedience class, Penny progressed into Agility and is hopefully going to compete in August in her first trial.

Your dog is a small sensitive breed (sweet too) I would not recommend trying anything that might be negative. Use soft food treats (Red Barn, Natural Balance and the like) cut up into small bits (smaller than a pea) and cut back the regular food on the day's you train, so there is no extra food being given.

Ultimately it is your personal choice as an owner what method to use, you have to weigh what will work for you and your dog. If you choose something that you won't stick to, the dog will not end up training. It is a team effort, there is no quick or easy way out.

Best of luck to you and your dog, whatever method you choose!
Remember, just keep training! (you can try one, and move to another if you find it is not for you)
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Khola- CDX, CGC

R plus and- paitence what a- shocking idea
 
 
Barked: Sun Jul 29, '07 5:02pm PST 
I agree with the above poster... I'm am also not one to feel the need to put shock collars on dogs.

Some Petsmart classes are okay classes, and some are not. It really depends on the trianer and the training they have gotten. You can always go and watch a class that the trainer is teaching, and ask them all the questions that you like. Petsmart can be a good place for basic training. If you talk to the trainer and you feel comfortable with that persons background and what they have to tell you, then by all means take the class. If not, search something else out... but in your case I would strongly not reccomend something that uses electric collars on your dog.
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ARCHMX Asher RL1X RL2X RL3X RL

we will dance in- the ring without- words
 
 
Barked: Sun Jul 29, '07 5:11pm PST 
I am speaking from personal experience when I say that I would never again use a trainer that relied on command base training. I have trained my dogs with compulsion training in the past and have used shock collars. At this time, I would only use a positive reinforcement trainer.

Think about the difference in the two types of training. Compulsion trainers will tell you that they use all four of the quadrants of operant conditioning and use praise as a reward. They give a command and force the dog into position. When they have decided the dog knows the position, they give he command and punish for lack of obedience. Then, if we take it off lead on the shock collar, the give the command and, at the same instant they begin to say the word, they begin the shock and end it when the dog has achieved the final position.

Contrast that to clicker training. They often lure a dog into position or capture a behavior. When the dog has learned the behavior and is presenting it (sometimes with a hand signal that resembles a lure) they put the command on cue.

Which method seems more conducive to learning? A method that delivers a punishment for every mistake or one that delivers a reward for every success?

In addition, there are drawbacks associated with punishment, including that they are difficult to apply correctly, they may have unexpected side effects, including fear and aggression, dogs generalize easily—but often inappropriately, punishment generally rely on fear, pain, or intimidation and can inhibit the animal's willingness to offer behaviors.

On top of this, there are some indications that the shock from these collars can cause sudden outbursts of severe aggression from previously docile dogs.

Given the choice, I'd stick with Petcock, or better yet, find a positive reinforcement trainer.

Edited by author Sun Jul 29, '07 5:14pm PST

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Nick, CGC, WETX

I like wet, fowl- smelling things
 
 
Barked: Sun Jul 29, '07 5:31pm PST 
As was mention, PetSmart classes really depend on the trainer. What I don't like about them is that usually they are conducted in a very confined space. I prefer a little more room.

As for the type of training I believe in positive reinforcement and have found that when done properly is effective whether you use a clicker or not.

I recommend wherever you go to talk to the actual trainer who is conducting the class before you enroll. Find out their method, if they teach release commands as part of basic instruction not just the basic action commands like sit stay, down, come, etc., how many other dogs will be in the group, and the instructor's experience level.

Remember, your dog is not going to get trained in class, you are. So the most important things you will learn in class is how to train your dog successfully.

Edited by author Sun Jul 29, '07 5:33pm PST

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ARCHMX Asher RL1X RL2X RL3X RL

we will dance in- the ring without- words
 
 
Barked: Sun Jul 29, '07 5:33pm PST 
Wow, great point, Nick. My Asher is sooo smart inclass (and out) that it is really obvious that I am the one who needs to be trained!
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Lucyy!?!!- =]]

So much cooler- than yerr mom :]
 
 
Barked: Sun Jul 29, '07 6:14pm PST 
Petsmart training isn't all bad it really depends on the trainer. And the sitmeanssit.com guy is messed up! Shock collars? No way!
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Josie - CGC

California Girl
 
 
Barked: Sun Jul 29, '07 8:09pm PST 
I would never use or send anyone to Sit Means Sit. They have been caught using the 'suspend and strangle' method-- hang the dog by their neck until unconscious... lay them on the ground and repeat when they wake up.

eek

Edited by author Thu Feb 19, '09 10:47am PST

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Lucyy!?!!- =]]

So much cooler- than yerr mom :]
 
 
Barked: Mon Jul 30, '07 1:02pm PST 
Wow? That is horrible...
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Fig Newton

I am a Princess!
 
 
Barked: Mon Jul 30, '07 1:09pm PST 
What Josie, are you serious? I have never heard of that! eek

I liked Nick's post regarding training the human. I struggled with Fig's training, not because she was not willing, but because I was not the boss (she is soooo cute, BOL!). It took my uncle (who is a trainer) really setting me straight about what I was doing to her by letting her get away with things my GSD would never even attempt to do! My GSD's, and now Fig, have always had positive reinforcement training. I would never want my pups to be afraid of me, I want them to know I'm the boss, but I would hate for my pup to cringe when I gave a command. That is what I would be concerned about (in addition to hurting them) with the use of a shock collar.
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