GO!

Cesar Millan - Good or Bad?

This is a place to gain some understanding of dog behavior and to assist people in training their dogs and dealing with common behavior problems, regardless of the method(s) used. This can cover the spectrum from non-aversive to traditional methods of dog training. There are many ways to train a dog. Please avoid aggressive responses, and counter ideas and opinions with which you don't agree with friendly and helpful advice. Please refrain from submitting posts that promote off-topic discussions. Keep in mind that you may be receiving advice from other dog owners and lovers... not professionals. If you have a major problem, always seek the advice of a trainer or behaviorist!

Topic closed to new posts.
(Page 10 of 24: Viewing entries 91 to 100)  
[First 10 entry] Page Links:  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  [Last 10 entry]  
Sparky

Christian- Canines rock! :D
 
 
Barked: Fri Dec 29, '06 9:33am PST 
IMO (I finally learned what that means!bol) Cesar has some good points. I have been reading through all of these posts and I have seen things about "over exercising". I think that is false. First of all, if it takes 3 hours like somebody said earlier in the thread to train them, then how could he be exercising the dogs for 8 hours? Sorry, but that doesn't make sense. Second, some dogs have more energy, so they need to be exercised more. Knowing my dog, she could run for 2 hours non stop and not get tired! So, yes, I think what Cesar is doing is a good thing. Third, if he encourages pack behavior in dogs, what is wrong with that? Didn't dogs travel in packs before us? I know some people are saying "well this is 2006", but that is no excuse. Not everything has to be 21st century! I don't see people stop planting gardens or helpingtheir enviroment! Sorry, but I think some of these posts are false. That is just my opinion, I am not trying to start a fight here, I am just stating my opinion. I will probably not be visiting this thread ever again, so if you disagree and want to tell me, pawmail me.
[notify]
Berry Bubba- Gump

Last ofthe- famous- international- playboys
 
 
Barked: Fri Dec 29, '06 9:34am PST 
BOL.....yeah...I laughed at that cause I have seen people walking their kids on leashes...and have imagined them going TSSSSSS! to the kids.....ROFLTO
[notify]
Orson

Grass isn't just- for cattle!
 
 
Barked: Fri Dec 29, '06 9:38am PST 
Puppies, especially large breed puppies have growth plates that do not completely form until they are grown, sometimes not until 18 months of age. Puppies should not have enforced exercise until this happens. They should have free exercise, be able to run, walk, jog, lay down when ever their body tells them. With enforced exercise it sometimes puts undo stress on joints and growth plates that can cause problems later on....example...hip displasia, some have argued here that it has nothing to do with it, but it is a proven fact it does, hip displasia is caused by the bones not forming properly in the joints of the hips and if you have ever had a dog that developed this it is heart breaking to watch the decline. This is not saying you can't put your puppy on a leash and walk them, most normal people will tire out before the puppy. Not so with a treadmill.
To stay on topic, I watch Cesar, I think it is entertaining and most of the people he helps are obviously unable to do any research to help themselves.
Do I agree with all of his methods........NO, some of his Ideas are great, but just like raising children everyone has their opinion and what works for them!
[notify]

Kitai

Chia Kitai!
 
 
Barked: Fri Dec 29, '06 9:54am PST 
Isn't the cause of most of the problems that the owners have relinquished the leadership role so the dogs are running, barking, jumping, biting amuck and running their own households? I think what he does has far less to do with the dog and far more to do with showing owners how with simple body posture, intention and empathy they can learn how to live with their dogs. Not let their dogs drive them crazy to the point they want to get rid of them.

@ Khola. My opinion has changed in sublte ways. No big 180. But then I bet that's no surprise since I am the dudes spitting image. I just don't think he always gets a fair shake. I know you give him a fair shake. But the idea that he is just completely bad bothers me. While some of his methods are extreme, so are the dogs and situations he often finds them in. If an alpha roll by Cesar can save a dog from being taken to a shelter that weekend then I'm all for that. But it should always and only be a last ditch solution performed by a professional. So I do defend him as far as the big picture goes for all of the reasons I always state.

I hope your Mom feels better soon puppy

*Kitai straps on a life jacket and joins Otis in the boat. He's made sure to bring along a corn dog for his buddy*
[notify]
Shimmer

I can rise to- any standard- that you set.
 
 
Barked: Fri Dec 29, '06 10:12am PST 
My opinion is that Cesar represents all that is evil (the axis of evil) to the all positive philosphy and if you simply search the interent and read books/web sites by the all positive trainers to which seem to be mosty of whats out there you will understand the dislike and disdain.
Cesars methods are considered old fashion,mean if not cruel,and cannot result in balanced behavior as aversives in dog training (according to everything that I am reading from the all positive trainers) as in using any of these methods surely will result in negative backlash behavior and relationship issues. Using aversives in training a dog will simply create fear and distrust it is taught.
It is written and preached that a dog trained with positive only methods learn faster,more reliably,have more fun,and will be happier ,and I have read in many cases love the human more.

. Regardless of what Cesar may be able to do with many thousands of dogs as he has done....it is basically and simply a mute event in the scheme of things in that it is simply an issue of the way in which he gets thier. This makes me /one ask how it is that his methods seem to work against the scientific studies that dispute his philosphical style and many of his inappropriate methods.

He and his methods are considered politically incorrect by positive only trainers and in thier agenda to hold everyone to this mindset his existant cannot and should not be tolerated in a sense so it seems.. Cesar represents a threat to anyone with opposing views on the basic concepts of teaching dogs with a dog friendy approach verses using force training/coorection based methods.
Many peoples lifes and organizations are founded on and around this new aged push/concept and feel threatened by his success. If you research the issue of character assination you will find that it walks hand in hand with any trainer that uses positive punishement/negative punishment in the training of dogs in many cases.....check it if you do not believe me...

Imagine what this would do to all of the established business and social concepts of dog trainers, they would have to change thier policies and selling points and thus seize to exist as we know them today and chaos and confusion would abound.
You could give Cesar a thousand dogs with the most severe issues and I bet he could get them into balance for the most part in a very short time and that would not prove one darn thing to those who simply cannot or will not concede to his mean/un dog friendly ways of appraching behavior.. this is how simple the issue really is I feel.

Nothing will convince anyone who is currently in the all positive mindset to think otherwise as it is a highly political and canned/one size fits all approach mindset that cannot be changed regardless of people setting up questions to discuss the pros and cons. (nice try but resistance is futile) LOL
Do the reserach on this point and you will understand that using aversives in dog training is not only a no no but for the most part does not work without grave circumstances and is just plain downright a mean thing to do and thus I guess anyone who uses these methods are the devil and lazy.
I hope this covers some of the underlaying problems with Cesar and those who use his aversive methods as that is the truth as I see it and have experienced it as a professional trainer. Rememeber dogs are not furry dolphins or humans as some would have us believe. They were selectively bred and culled to do mans bidding and become companion animals that make them a distinct species but not above the nature of things..

just another 2 cents...

Edited by author Fri Dec 29, '06 11:45am PST

[notify]
Duchess

Save a- Life:- Adopt!

moderator
 
 
Barked: Fri Dec 29, '06 10:12am PST 
Katie~ The "Cartman" Whisperer episode of South Park is one of my all-time favorites (right up there with the Ginger Kids episode)!!

On topic. Cesar: I don't like him, but I don't hate him either. His methods do undoubtedly help some dogs. As for his show, of course the people who appear on it are going to say, "That's amazing!" It's HIS show. He's not going to air someone saying that they aren't impressed with his work. Watched one of his shows, muted, last night. Did seem harsh. Thankfully, my Mom obeys those "don't try this at home" warnings because she understands she could do something harmful, so I'm safe from the alpha roll and flooding. Flooding seems rather cruel. I guess it could work, but wow, I didn't know what it was until it appeared on the episode I watched last night. And I could care less about his immigration status. It has neither positively nor negatively influenced his ability (or some may feel, lack thereof) to train dogs, and it never will. It's a non-issue.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it! And, of course, everypup here is entitled to disagree with me.

*Duchess chases Berry's tail, gets bored because she can't catch it, straps on life jacket, and joins Otis in the boat*
Shimmer

I can rise to- any standard- that you set.
 
 
Barked: Fri Dec 29, '06 10:43am PST 
A question was asked by someone I believe is taking 3 hours to resolve a dogs issue bad (?)or I assume this to mean verses good. I am not sure what the question is in realationship to but I would say it depends on the issue and in most cases finding resolution for most dog issues requires days,weeks,and months. It also is a question of asking how reliable is/was the resolution? Most issues require setting the dog up repeatidly for proofing the level of reliability in various environments/the environment over a period of time to establish the degree of understanding/learning that has been imparted to the dog to modify a particular behavior... So without further data on the specific issue I would confortably say that 3 hours is not enough time to throughly modify a behavior in most cases.
cheers

Edited by author Fri Dec 29, '06 10:48am PST

[notify]
Orson

Grass isn't just- for cattle!
 
 
Barked: Fri Dec 29, '06 11:19am PST 
Well cesar states constantly that owners have to continue the work that he started.................so he never claims to have "fixed" the dog or problems in the preliminary visit with them. He gives them the tools and they have to use them, (I state again that I do not like a lot of his methods and am not "sticking up" for them, but I don't want to see people misguided thinking it takes 3 hours and everything is hunky dorey)
[notify]
Otis

"More- Walks....Less- Toys"
 
 
Barked: Fri Dec 29, '06 11:21am PST 
A shirt I saw says it all: "The only thing you can get two trainers to agree on is what the third trainer is doing wrong!"

Come on folks...name calling and saying that people who adhere to Cesar's philisophy are "devils"....I may have read that post wrong, or misinterpreted what it said....and I hope that I did.

Dogster is a place where we all can share our experiences with other folks who care as much for their dogs as we do....We ALL love our furry friends....THAT is what matters....and that is something we ALL can agree on.

I hope that this thread gets closed......
[notify]
Khola- CDX, CGC

R plus and- paitence what a- shocking idea
 
 
Barked: Fri Dec 29, '06 11:26am PST 
ohh.... I want that t-shirt!!!
[notify]
(Page 10 of 24: Viewing entries 91 to 100)  
[First 10 entry] Page Links:  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  [Last 10 entry]