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This is a place to gain some understanding of dog behavior and to assist people in training their dogs and dealing with common behavior problems, regardless of the method(s) used. This can cover the spectrum from non-aversive to traditional methods of dog training. There are many ways to train a dog. Please avoid aggressive responses, and counter ideas and opinions with which you don't agree with friendly and helpful advice. Please refrain from submitting posts that promote off-topic discussions. Keep in mind that you may be receiving advice from other dog owners and lovers... not professionals. If you have a major problem, always seek the advice of a trainer or behaviorist!
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Pooch ~ I- miss you ~
love forever
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 | | Barked: Mon Dec 4, '06 3:48pm PST | |  | |  | | Most of the things Cesar says about how to interact with dogs are common things that ANY dog trainer or behaviorist will tell you, like to be calm and never yell or try to train your dog when you're angry, that dogs NEED exercise to keep them behaving well, to be assertive with a dog, etc... The phrase "A tired dog is a good dog" has been around for many many more years than Cesar has been, trainers have been saying this forever.
I do think it's great that someone is reaching many dog owners with these common sense tips, but it bothers me that so many people think Cesar is so amazing because of these things. I also think that his other methods may cause more harm to pets, and outweigh the good information he does give.
I also do not agree with most of the techniques he uses on dogs. They are outdated (many were popular 20-30 years ago) and some of them are based on false data about wolves--not even dogs! Many of the methods he is using have been rejected by a lot of modern dog trainers. For example the alpha roll was created from an observed behavior in wolf packs, but it was a FALSE observation where the behavior was misunderstood! Studies done since then have shown it to be false. Alpha wolves do not actually forcibly roll lower pack members on their backs. The lower pack members roll over on their own in deference to the alpha dog, they are not physically pushed over and pinned by the alpha, they roll over ON THEIR OWN. A physical flip onto their back would be viewed as a very aggressive gesture and is not something an alpha wolf would do-- perhaps a rival non-pack member wolf may do this during a fight, but not a higher ranking pack member. You may see dogs roll and pin each other while fighting or when angry with another dog but again, this is an agressive move.
Here is a good article that explains this myth and others about dominance:
-- link removed --Edited by author Mon Dec 4, '06 3:54pm PST
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Ginger- ♥ my- angel
My Angel
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| | Barked: Mon Dec 4, '06 4:00pm PST | | | | | | Just wanted to say that I was at my groomer last week and she told me she sees a lot of people come into the shop doing that "ttsssh" thing even though they have no idea what the purpose behind it is and do not use it "correctly" (the way Cesar uses it)... Apparently his methods are becoming pretty popular and people are not heeding the warnings, people who do not understand the methods are using what they see on his show. So no I don't think everyone who owns a dog and watches his show just takes parts that they can use or uses different things in training from different sources--- I think there are a fair amount of dog owners out there whose only information on dog training comes from Cesar's show.
I don't know about anyone else, but this scares me... Cesar uses some methods which could get someone seriously injured; like the alpha roll. | | | | |
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Duchess
moderator |
| | Barked: Mon Dec 4, '06 4:15pm PST | | | | | | That scares us too, that people are so quick to imitate him. How much can one possibly learn about his interactions with one or two dogs for an hour-long show (minus commercials)? My Mommy wants to get me trained but she's going to take me to a trainer, not simply try to do it herself, and definitely not from his show. If she were to attempt something like that, she'd research all kinds of training methods online... that's if she were to try that. She isn't. She's afraid she wouldn't do it right, since she's never been trained on how to be a trainer. | | | | |
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Kitai
Chia Kitai!
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| | Barked: Mon Dec 4, '06 4:31pm PST | | | | | | The show is on National Georgraphic channel.
The dog injured was severely injured by an employee at the center when Cesar was not there. It was left on a treadmill unattended and was somehow choked by the leash and collar when it fell or stepped off of the treadmill. An accident due to negligence but not at his hands.
And I don't understand why there is always a need to point out that he was an illegal immigrant. That doesn't change what he knows about dogs at all. He doesn't hide it in his book and talks openly about why he chose to cross the border and what he has done legally to become a citizen since then.
And respectfully to Vance, I care if a dog is only taken out of it's yard once a year on a leash because if that dog slips it's collar or slips out of it's house or yard it is much more likely to bite the first person it sees because it is undersocialized. It also will make a dog more difficult to rehome if it has no leash manners and is undersocialized to other dogs and people. These are often the dogs you see go to a shelter when their owner loses their job or home or dies unexpectedly and due to aggresssion issues they are put down. Owners just accept that they are willing to deal with behavioral issues that could well cost their dog its life if it ever finds itself in a shelter or rescue situation. | | | | |
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Duchess
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Kitai
Chia Kitai!
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| | Barked: Mon Dec 4, '06 4:47pm PST | | | | | | Maybe so but that doesn't mean it doesn't ever happen.
I do know that the number of dogs we see in the pounds available for adoptiion are only the ones who passed the temperment tests. Those who are aggressive for any reason are usually euthanized are they not? There is too much liability for the shelters to release the dogs even to rescue groups who might want to try to rehabilitate them.
Add to that my past experience that I was once bitten by such a dog that made a mad rush out the door to the street, saw me on the sidewalk and bit me on the leg then ran back into the house.
I'm just saying that to make your dog as well socialized as possible is a good thing and if it takes people seeing Cesar talking about the importance of walking your dog in public on his show, then that's a good thing. No dog should spend its life locked in a house and backyard and owners who look the other way at their pets aggression issues are endangering the public at large if their dog accidently gets loose. At least IMO. | | | | |
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