 |
This is a place to gain some understanding of dog behavior and to assist people in training their dogs and dealing with common behavior problems, regardless of the method(s) used. This can cover the spectrum from non-aversive to traditional methods of dog training. There are many ways to train a dog. Please avoid aggressive responses, and counter ideas and opinions with which you don't agree with friendly and helpful advice. Please refrain from submitting posts that promote off-topic discussions. Keep in mind that you may be receiving advice from other dog owners and lovers... not professionals. If you have a major problem, always seek the advice of a trainer or behaviorist!
| Topic closed to new posts. |
 |
 |
 |
 |
Khola- CDX, CGC
R plus and- paitence what a- shocking idea |
 | | Barked: Mon Dec 4, '06 12:04pm PST | |  | |  | | why I don't like Cesar:
- everything Marlowe said.
- he attributes everything to "being the pack leader", when I really strongly believe that our dogs know we are not dogs. We have no tails, we do not communicate with them like dogs. We do give them things and direction, but as far as a "pack leader" I think that is WAY too presumptious.
- he can't back up what he believes. Ex: Cesar says dogs need to walk because they are use to roaming for food because they are wolf decendants. When approched with the fact that not all wolves migrate, he had no answer.
- his adversives are VERY extreme in many cases.
- people think he is amazing for telling people to be calm and assertive when any good trainer you would run into would tell you that. Its not a new concept to educated trainers and its shown to be this huge apiphony (sp?) when really to a good trianer its common sense.
- he chokes dog allllllll the time with their leashes as makeshift chokers and regular chains. Those dogs give up and "submit" not because they want to but because they are worked into exhaustion.
bottom line I look as a relationship with my dog as a positive expierence that we both benifit from. If I were to be walking into the gates of hell with my dog I would want him to trust me because he wanted to be there... not be afraid of the consequences.
WHen you use adversives with a dog the behavior you are trying to deal with is not EXTINGUISHED but SUPRESSED. This means that it can come back at any moment and very likely even stronger than it was originally.
There is a reason that the Humane Society posted to the public that they do NOT condone anything he does and do not support him in any way. |  |  | |  |
| | my posts | my page | msg me | my family's posts | gift me | become pals | [notify] |
|
|
 |
 |
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Elsie Mae- Ray
Cherry Angel and- Elsie NUN- furever pals
 |
| | Barked: Mon Dec 4, '06 1:01pm PST | | | | | | I can understand where the critics are coming from but I think you have to assume that the people watching him are not leading him blindly. We have a brain and should be able to decipher the good from the bad in his shows.
Most of us here mentioned not how he showed us to tame our dominant dog but a better way to interact with them. Yes any trainer will tell you these things but who really has access to these trainers? Not many people so I am glad Cesar is there to reinforce walking and mental stimulation and to treat your dog like a dog.
I have incoroporated many of his ideas with those of our trainer and other books I have read and the one thing he taught us that noone else did was that our actions were actually enabling our dogs bad behavior and her fear of people . I never thought to look at myself as her problem. But now I do and our relationship is much much better. I have become calm and assertive (btw I cant stand the catch phrases either!)
As for the alpha roll I do believe that it is not only a mental but also a physical thing. Our "alpha" does roll our other pup onto her back an dpin her there when the pup has gone to far. Would I try that with a big aggressive dog..........Uh NO cause i am not stupid enough to assume I can. AndI would hope that most people who watch this dont think they can be "Cesar Milans" themselves.
I think by red zone aggressive he means in danger of being put down. I dont think it is a scientific term.
He does state never to try to do these things without the aid of a professional. He is not saying you can always cure your dog but you may need to look at yourself as part of the problem.
I dont think he is a highly educated or trained man just someone who is trying to get the word out to the masses. I mean dog training and well behaved pups are now more en vogue then ever.
I like that he pushes excercise, calmness, strucure and that we are in charge and often the problem. These are things I now put into practice. As for the other more significant issues I am fortunate enough to have a trainer to work with personally.
I am pretty sure most of us take what he is saying with a grain of salt and just use the most common sens eof what he says | | | | |
| | my posts | my page | msg me | my family's posts | gift me | become pals | [notify] |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
ARCHX Asher,- RL1X, RL2X,- RL3
Learning is- changing what we- do
|
| | Barked: Mon Dec 4, '06 1:03pm PST | | | | | | I hate to be a voice of dissention, but I do not like the Dog Whisperer at all. Maybe his methods work for him, but I don’t think they would work for everyone. I’ve used different types of training with my dogs, from traditional obedience to positive reinforcement only. I am certainly not an expert, but have worked with a few “problem” dogs. What Cesar Milan recommends is a 20 year regression in professional dog training. Most studies sighting “Alphas” in wolf packs came from packs of unrelated wolves and really do not apply to domestic dogs. Dogs almost never assert their dominance in a physical manner.
Watch dogs interacting. The “Alpha” dog does not role the “Omega” dog; rather the “Omega” dog presents its belly to the “Alpha” dog. The more I learn about operant conditioning and dog training, the more I am convinced that Cesar Milan’s methods could be dangerous to the unsuspecting dog owner. | | | | |
| | my posts | my page | msg me | my family's posts | gift me | become pals | [notify] |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Elsie Mae- Ray
Cherry Angel and- Elsie NUN- furever pals
|
| | Barked: Mon Dec 4, '06 1:15pm PST | | | | | | Asher, apparently here you are not in the minority!! 
Our alpha does rollor pin our other dogs when they have crossed th eline. I have also seen many other dogs do it too. I do agree though that mostly the alpha rules without physical aggression and that is something Cesar Milan also advocates. I guess my thing is I work in Human Behavioral Psych and see such similarities in some of the work he does and how pts with OCD are reconditioned.
Thanks guys for explaining to me why you dont like him. Th ethings you mentioned are some things I have also questioned. I tend to just take the common sense things from him and not apply his more physical techniques...for those i refer to my trainer. | | | | |
| | my posts | my page | msg me | my family's posts | gift me | become pals | [notify] |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Eponine
Love- unconditionally. |
| | Barked: Mon Dec 4, '06 1:39pm PST | | | | | | I've always been impressed with the quick results he gets, and I also think it's good that he helps people realize that the problem is generally the owner and not the dog.
But sometimes, I'm inclined to think that HE is a bit of an aggressive individual, forget about the dogs for a sec! Loving dogs is awesome, but he seems often to do it to an extent that he's not so crazy about people. That not only confuses me but it also makes me question his effectiveness as a behaviorist, because for one who talks so much about "pack" he doesn't seem to get that we can't become dogs any more than our dogs are those little people in fursuits, so I think his "pack mentality" needs to be in terms of human/dog pack, instead he goes from human/human to dog/dog. Dogs aren't doofuses, they may relate to us in terms of their doghood, but that doesn't mean they treat us just exactly as they'd treat another dog. Because when it comes right down to it, they know we're not dogs and I don't think they expect us to treat them as if we are.
That said, I do really like the show. I just think people need to understand they can't educate themselves about dog behavior or training just by watching it, they need to supplement that with other resources to be sure they're getting a good, well-rounded picture of what it is to live with, and work with, a dog. The ideas that I've formed over the years have gone through a LOT of changes. Every book I read, video I watched, or trainer I talked to gave me new pieces of information, which I then evaluated against my own ideas and beliefs and smooshed together to come up with the ideas I have now. I'm still far and away from ever considering myself a "good" dog trainer, I make all kinds of mistakes and there's lots I don't know.
So Cesar= good as a piece of the proverbial puzzle, bad as the whole puzzle or worse, a quick fix. I'd say overall I like him. I don't always agree with him and he's probably not someone I'd want to be best pals with, but it's an entertaining watch and a good reminder about exercise and structure. | | | | |
| | my posts | my page | msg me | my family's posts | gift me | become pals | [notify] |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
June (Carter- Cash)
I want my mama! - Papa's OK too. |
| | Barked: Mon Dec 4, '06 2:02pm PST | | | | | | I like the dog whisperer and I have taken things from the show and trained June with them. And despite my inconsistancy, which is my fault. It all has worked out for the bette.r
I do agree that dogs arn't tards, they know that we arn'[t dogs. and they know when we are taking good care of them and when we are not. But I also do think that we need to establish that we are the boss of the house. That they cannot run the house.
I cannot understand why people don't like him when he is obviously changing the dogs and the peoples lives.
IE: That dog that wouldn't walk on shiny floors. YEah Ceaser was a little dominant with the dog, but you know what a year later that dog was able to walk on shiny floors again.
This list could go on and on of dogs that he has helps.
NOW: In terms of just helping and answering questions via email or phone... he sucks!!!
I've emailed him several times and he says he cannot help me becuase he has too many people right now. | | | | |
| | my posts | my page | msg me | gift me | become pals | [notify] |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
NECK BONE Charlie
snakes run for- your lives!SHE- HAS A GUN! |
| | Barked: Mon Dec 4, '06 2:17pm PST | | | | | | I agree with Eponine, you learn a little from several different sources (but that is how I handle almost everything in my life). you need to find what works best and do not rely on a single source. I think this forum has provided a lot of information that covers several aspects of training. | | | | |
| [notify] |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Khola- CDX, CGC
R plus and- paitence what a- shocking idea |
| | Barked: Mon Dec 4, '06 2:24pm PST | | | | | | I think what is being missed here is that the people on this site, for the most part, are educated on their dogs. They do know to look to many sources and check things out. I find that this is not common "out there" in the world. Some people's only exposure is to the Dog Wisperer show and they take it for all its worth and then some. Then, if they are ambitious, they go and buy his book, only reinforcing his docterine.
I agree... look at many different things and take bits and pieces, but really its not the common thing that is occuring. I'm getting people "tsshhtt"ing at their dogs and not knowing the premis behind it (the noise does nothing without something behind it), or people coming to me with their dog on a pinch because they saw Cesar use them. | | | | |
| | my posts | my page | msg me | my family's posts | gift me | become pals | [notify] |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
My Account
