Please, more- FOOOD!!!
|Barked: Thu May 4, '06 6:27am PST |
Wow! I did not think that so many people would have something to say on this subject. Very Cool.
The reason I pointed out the puppywishes website is that there is a great deal on information there on this subject, pages in fact. And I wanted to use that information to support what I am saying here.
I did not want to spam or anything like that.
Also, I may be young, but I also work with a team of expert dog trainers that range from 25 to 55, they have been life long dog trainers, who have resurched dogs, training, breeding and behaviour for years. None of the trainers I work with use treats. Nor do they yell or punish the dogs in any way. NEVER! IT is not allowed. Still, they work wonders. So, I don't see what my age has to do with it. We all know that there are a great many established dog trainers (full grown adults) who see a problem with treat training.
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG with using treats. But the end result of treat training is not the same as when treats are not used. In many ways, to treat or not to treat, has everything to do with what the owners end belife of what a dog is and is able to do.
Someone wrote, 'dogs cannot work for love', and that it is 'wishful thinking'. Oh dear, it sounds like you read the Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson. I read it too, and that book made me sad. Because it reduced our domesticated dog to nothing more than lab rats.
If you do not BELIEVE that your dog can work for love, then YOUR dog will not work for love because you will not try to achive this wonderful goal. In this case, your belief system has everything to do with the end result of your training efforts.
Think about this. Most animals will work for food. But this does not mean that they are lerning to love or bond with their owners. A rat that is trained to do tricks is trained with the same methods you learn in a treat class. Do you really think that you get the best DOG TRAINING results when you use CHICKEN TRAINING methods?
In the end, if you could get your dog to work with LOVE as the key motivator. If you could change your views and give up FORCE & FOOD, why not try? The history of dog training has seen a great many changes. I have read a great deal and have talked with hundreds of trainers about this. Harsh methods changed to loving methods, loving methods changed to BF Skinner, BF Skinner changed to a clicker.... I feel very lucky. I have worked in classes that use force and hit. They were terrible. I have worked with trainers who use treats. They were fun and the dogs had a great time, but in the end, when push came to shove, these dogs did what they wanted. They could not be fully trusted in some situations. I now work with a no food no force training group and the results are great. We have fun, the dogs get smart, and people learn that LOVE can train a dog.
One last thing. I meet dog owners who come to school with a bag of treats. After their first class with us, when people learn to use "soft tounch", "understanding tones", and "consistant actions" they all same the same thing - "Why are more trainers not teaching this?"
Ok everyone - I gotta run. I hope that we can continue this topic with kindness and respect
I do not own the puppywishes website and I do not control what is published there. Someone had something to say about "Millan", a dog trainer who they do not agree with. I agree, in part. Although I think that Millan is moving in the right direction, he is too abrupt with the dogs. I think he has the same problem that food trainers have, he wants fast results. I do know that many of the puppywishes trainers like his way of thinking, and not so much the hands on methods he uses. For example; I know that we all hate the way he teaches dogs to heel. Way to army like for us. We work from a place of freedom ( when outside) and slowly give the dog time to move towards us on its own. Very cool stuff.
The Boy Who Dreams With Dogs