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Pit Bull Chat

This is a forum for bonding with your fellow Dogsters about the traits, quirks and idiosyncrasies of your favorite breed. Please remember that there are absolutely no animal sales or requests for studding or breeding allowed on our sites. All posts and interactions should be in the spirit of Dogster's Community Guidelines and should be fun, friendly and informational. Enjoy!

  
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Saint- Raphael

Never mind the- dog, beware of- owner :)
 
 
Barked: Thu Dec 18, '08 1:22pm PST 
Not sure if you guys have been to this site yet, but I get TONS of useful info from its members on their forum:

Pit Bull Chat

Edited by author Tue Dec 23, '08 6:23am PST

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Hershey Bear

Silly old bear
 
 
Barked: Thu Dec 18, '08 6:04pm PST 
I go on Pitbull Forum, but I'll take a look at this one.

http://www.pitbullforum.com/index.php

Edited by author Tue Dec 23, '08 6:25am PST

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In loving- memory of- Lilo

Support bully- love. Ban BSL.
 
 
Barked: Thu Dec 18, '08 6:17pm PST 
I'm on both PBC (BOL the initials... PBC... BOL) and PBF. They're both VERY different in opinions.

I guess, being on both, you see two sides of the same coin. Two views of the same opinion.
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Saint- Raphael

Never mind the- dog, beware of- owner :)
 
 
Barked: Fri Dec 19, '08 7:20am PST 
Oh, I didn't know about the other one. I'll join that one too. Thanks!
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Bella

Want to be my- friend? Oh,- please?!
 
 
Barked: Fri Dec 19, '08 8:45am PST 
I just checked out pit bull forum and I would not recommend this site to anyone... Their dog-dog aggression info in horrible. For the record:

-Pit bulls originated as farm dogs, not fighting dogs.

-There is NO scientific data to support the idea that "aggression" can be passed on through generations.

To claim that all pit bulls are dog aggressive and cannot be trusted with other dogs is only damaging the breed's reputation, and our cause, even more.

Not to mention the fact that if no one "trusts" their pit bull around other dogs, those same dogs will not be socialized with dogs and guess what? You end up with a dog-aggressive dog.

Edited by author Fri Dec 19, '08 8:46am PST

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In loving- memory of- Lilo

Support bully- love. Ban BSL.
 
 
Barked: Fri Dec 19, '08 10:16pm PST 
Ah, Bella, Pit Bull Chat and Pit Bull Forum both have that same information.

The members pretty much ignore it and get help from other members when it comes to dog aggression advice. PBC and PBF get their info from other pit bull sites; so, it's either accurate or inaccurate.

Though, Pit Bull Chat makes a point to say they were bred to bull bait, for farm work and to hunt WAY before to fight.

EDIT: I think, actually, that they were bull baiting dogs before farm dogs. thinking

Then, after seeing how the breed did so well in bull baiting, farms started using them to take down unruly cattle? And, then, hunters used them to take down boar?

Something like that. Either way, they were bull dogs/farm dogs/hunting dogs before fighting dogs.

Edited by author Fri Dec 19, '08 10:18pm PST

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Lil Bit

715120
 
 
Barked: Fri Dec 19, '08 10:52pm PST 
Actually, the breed "American Pit Bull Terriers" were originally used for fighting. It was before the breed was actually formed and called "Pit Bull Terrier" and later, "American Pit Bull Terrier," that the dogs (thought to be mainly crosses between English Bull Dogs and Blue Paul Terriers) were pitted against rats (to see how many rats they could kill in a certain amount of time), used for farming to catch, maintain and control cattle and used for bull baiting for sport and entertainment.

It is quite accurate to say that they were originally bred and raised for fighting purposes, because as an actual "breed," they were. It was their ancestors and the dogs used to form the breed that were used for the latter. Some families still used American Pit Bull Terriers on their farm, but they were never specifically bred for it.
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Lil Bit

715120
 
 
Barked: Fri Dec 19, '08 11:59pm PST 
Bella,

"Pit Bulls" did not originate as farm dogs. Your information is incorrect.

You are correct by saying that there is no scientific data to support "aggression" being passed through generations, or at least I've never fallen upon it. However, dog aggression is prevalent in many breeds, especially terrier breeds. Dogs that are bred for a specific purpose over many generations, tend to excel in activities related to that purpose. For instance, Jack Russell Terriers were originally bred for fox hunting. The genetics and instincts passed on from generations are noteworthy in their offspring; the breed, on average, is animal aggressive because of it's purpose. The same is true for all breeds that were bred to hunt, catch or any other form of animal on animal confrontation. There is also no scientific data to prove otherwise.

To claim that many pit bulls may become dog aggressive and cannot be completely trusted with other dogs is not damaging the breed's reputation. All "pit bulls" may become dog aggressive as they mature or experience an altercation. It is not damaging the breed's reputation by stating the truth... it is the spreading of the fathomed opinion that all "pit bulls" are just like every other pet and can be treated as pack animals that are damaging to the breed's reputation. There have been countless situation arise where an owner's dog suddenly has a serious altercation with another animal and the only response from the owner is "well, he's never done that before." Is it not more responsible to make owners aware that their dog may become dog aggressive or become dominate in a situation if threatened or challenged than to tell them there is absolutely nothing to worry about and risk the possibility of something actually occurring?

Owner's shouldn't "trust" their "Pit Bull" around other dogs. All "Pit Bulls" should be supervised around other dogs, no matter the history of the dog or the age. There is no reason for any "Pit Bull" to not be socialized with other dogs, only caution taken during that socialization.

If you came to your opinion to all of this from Pit Bull Chat, you clearly misinterpreted the meaning. Pit Bull Chat is a community that promotes responsible ownership and rescue efforts. It is never responsible to give complete trust in a "Pit Bull" around just any dog. This advice is most responsible to the average "Pit Bull" owner and will continue to be advised because of its legitimacy.

The community does not wish to have one of its members become another headline in the newspaper due to ignorance. It is a community of diverse members with differing opinions, and no opinion is treated any differently than the next. However, facts and widespread experience are treated as truth rather than covered up.

I welcome you to once again take a look at Pit Bull Chat and take from it what it has to offer.
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Bella

Want to be my- friend? Oh,- please?!
 
 
Barked: Sat Dec 20, '08 8:49am PST 
Many pit bull rescues, shelters, websites and blogs across the world tell potential owners and the general public that pit bulls cannot be trusted around other dogs. The general mantra is that pit bulls can "turn" once they reach maturity, giving the perception that pit bulls in particular, of all the breeds of dog, will suddenly become dog aggressive due to their "fighting history". First, the use of what we refer to as "pit bulls" as farm dogs far predates their fighting history. Second, not all pit bulls have fighting in their recent "genetic history". Most importantly, the truth is that ALL dogs react differently to a huge variety of situations once they have fully matured, like most other species on the planet. Do humans react the same way to a threat at age 2, age 16, age 30..? Of course not! The level to which even pit bull advocates spread this information is mind-blowing. Of course a mature dog may become less tolerant of dogs, but that is certainly not a breed specific trait.

A pit bull is a dog, and all dogs have developed and mastered cues and signals throughout their evolution in order to survive as a species, meaning those same cues and signals serve to avoid fighting within the species. A well socialized dog has fine tuned these skills by being subjected to millions of different situations, meeting new dogs and new people everyday for his entire puppy hood and adolescence. Throughout these years, a dog learns how to handle frustration and how to tolerate inappropriate behavior from other dogs. "Genetics" do not override learned behavior. A dog is not going to suddenly "turn" or react with fatal force without warning if it has been practicing giving and receiving cues for years. It is regular trips to places like dog parks that provide these fundamental experiences!

Understandably, it is worrisome for pit bull owners to visit dog parks due to the expectations and reactions of others. Yes, a pit bull can be blamed if any incident occurs. It is imperative that pit bull owners are vigilant about monitoring play and knowing when to keep moving, or leave the park, if necessary. I am not in favor of small dog parks that don't provide plenty of space, a number of acres at least, for the dogs to feel comfortable. Nor do I recommend dog parks for people that simply are not comfortable there. Regardless, feeling unable to bring pit bull type dogs to the park furthers the stereotype that pit bulls don't behave like other dogs. Further, it robs them of the experiences they need to practice good dog-dog interactions. If you raise your dog believing they simply cannot ever be trusted around other dogs, that is exactly what you will get.

More often than not, the opinion that pit bulls are inherently dog aggressive is voiced by people who work with rescued dogs, pit bulls who have been abandoned, surrendered, or found as strays. We must keep in mind that just as the media is not an appropriate place to get information on the nature of dogs, neither is a shelter. The guidelines one should follow with a rescued dog are far from the guidelines appropriate for an 8 week old puppy. No dog with an unknown background should be immediately trusted in ANY situation.
Likewise, an 8 week old puppy should not be treated like a rehabilitated fighting dog.

If you bring your dog to a well maintained dog park on a regular basis, you are giving that dog countless new experiences meeting new dogs of ALL temperaments. You are giving that dog the opportunity to become highly skilled in dog-dog interactions, whether those interactions are good or bad. Further, you are providing a highly mentally and physically stimulating experience ON A REGULAR BASIS that keeps your dog from becoming over aroused or under stimulated, two factors that can greatly contribute to aggression. When it comes down to it, the more varied dog-dog interactions a dog has, the better he is able to deal with any dog-dog situation. Expecting ANY dog to never encounter an unsocialized or aggressive dog is unrealistic. Preparing your dog to diffuse or ignore such a situation cannot be achieved without practice, and what other place to do this than a park dedicated to the playful interactions among dogs?

If every person who adopts or otherwise obtains a pit bull puppy believes they are unwelcome and unable to visit dog parks, every single one of those dogs will not have any experience meeting different dogs of all sizes and temperaments in an open, off leash environment. Those puppies will not learn how to deal with dogs of different sizes, dogs with different play styles, dogs who are not properly socialized or dogs who are downright unfriendly. Further, those dogs will not have the opportunity to run freely with other dogs, a wonderful way to exercise mentally and physically for them, and a joy to watch for us! Those same puppies will grow up into dogs that cannot be trusted around other dogs, because they were not given the chance to learn HOW. Don't pit bulls deserve that chance? As lovers of the breed, it is our responsibility to make them the best that they can be, and by insisting that they can't be trusted around dogs, we are not helping them, or our cause, at all.

I cannot stress enough that there is no scientific data supporting "aggression" as inheritable. This is not to say that genetics don't play any role in behavior- they do. There are dogs that are raised with all the proper socialization they should have and still have aggression issues. Regardless, this is not specific to pit bulls. By insisting that "pit bull type" dogs cannot be trusted with other dogs, we are doing the breed a major disservice.
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Bella

Want to be my- friend? Oh,- please?!
 
 
Barked: Sat Dec 20, '08 9:17am PST 
And Lil Bit, you say that "facts and widespread experience are treated as truth rather than covered up". This is exactly the mindset we pit bull lovers fight against with people who believe our dogs are all killers. We ask them to look beyond what appears to be "fact and widespread experience" and form opinions based on rational thought. I encourage you to do the same.
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